Aziz Ansari Responds to Accusations • Page 7

Yeah, I hadn't made that specific connection, even though I understood the concept. As a parent of young kids, we're trying really hard already (they're not even 2!) to work on teaching affirmative consent in all kinds of interactions.

I also found this part interesting, because I've seen this reaction on my facebook feed from those I'm connected with who are of that generation (even some of those who are otherwise generally "woke"):

 

Came across this article recently: KatyKatiKate: not that bad

I think it's worth reading to understand why another woman would feel conflict about the Grace's experience. I, too, was surprised that so many people are willing to give this a pass (on Facebook, Twitter, etc). And this article I think manages to capture the conflict that maybe some people are feeling.

 

though it's already been said a few times, the hostility in this thread/many others is honestly mind-boggingly unnecessary and i know it doesn't matter but it really puts me off of even visiting here

 

Where do you find the hostility in this unnecessary and why?

 

I am all about extending grace and compassion. It takes our whole lives to get this way and it takes our whole lives to undo it. I'm imperfect and I certainly don't know everything. I've had members here def help me out when I needed it and I learn everyday. I totally don't mind having discussions with people. It's chill. But when someone comes in with the purpose of being antagonistic, idk. I still try to be kind but it's also exhausting. There is no interest in learning. They come in to say "gotcha." Then when people don't respond well, they go "but why are you so meeeeean and intolerant?!?! Predictable!!" If u want ppl to come at u in a kind and respectful way then u need to start out kind and respectful urself. It goes both ways. If u come in with the purpose of riling up, don't be surprised when people get riled up. Idk. I just want a world of rainbows and unicorns.

 

let me clarify that it's completely unrelated to what anyone's saying in regards to Aziz, and that I agree 100% with those sentiments

I just don't understand why so many people find it necessary to constantly turn the thread into a shitshow and gang up on someone whenever they choose to expose their ignorance (@Terry, for example). believe me I completely understand the frustration of trying to hold your tongue while you read his ridiculous comments but I'm confident that everyone in this thread is aware of his reputation and his post history. we all know absolutely nothings gonna change his opinion. attempting to argue with him is guaranteed to do nothing but create more negativity, so why bother? there's always like 5+ people that make it a point to engage in arguing and name calling, does that help anything?

why not just ban him (which I know he is now) or just ignore him (we all know some people are a lost cause)? there's already enough negativity simply given the subject matter of this thread, I don't see the point of the extra hostility. there's no good that can come from it and it happens literally every time. that's partially what I took from @zachmacD's comment

 

Why are you more mad at people being angry at a shitty troll than you are at the clearly sexist troll?

 

all I'm saying is there's no need to constantly entertain the trolls, idk if you think I have any compassion for Aziz but I can assure you that's really not the case

 

I banned the troll. Again, what then is unnecessary hostile about the response to those trolls? Why is your anger and your desire to speak out against those mad at things like sexism, and not the sexism itself? You picked this moment to post and get upset about those that are hostile toward awful posts. (The vast majority of this argument is not about a "troll," but the supposed "good and teachable but current bigot." That was what was being argued, badly, by others before.)

 

I don't understand the mindset of being mad about hostility but the hostility you're mad at, and choose to voice an opinion about ... is at telling bigots to fuck off, not the inherent hostility of the ... you know ... bigots/sexists/etc.

 

I just read a bunch of MLK quotes about this yesterday, more concerned with order than actual injustice

 

idk what else to say but i do get what you're saying and respect your opinion. banning him was definitely the right move, and for the record I think Terry is a complete moron just as everyone else does

 

no worries i get where you're coming from. my personal gripe was w the fact people were not reporting or laughing at the prospect of doing so in the name of giving attention to people who genuinely don't want to learn or are trolling.

i'm fine with people telling them to fuck off, but when it just devolves into that repeating itself over and over and the conversation is thus going nowhere, that's when i think a mod or Jason needs to intervene to ban whoever needs to be banned (which is why i made sure someone checked this thread). i don't think you're against the hostility towards bigots, as i'm not either, obviously lol.

no that's just a massive reach here hahaha, unless you're talking about the guy who was like "be nice to bigots" in that case carry on.

besides, this is just a message board, telling bigots to fuck off online isn't a revolutionary act LOL. we can just easily deplatform them on here after making it clear they're not welcome.

 

man when I left this thread it had 1 page. when I came back today and saw it had 7, and started catching up, I was like wow this is a good discussion I'm so glad it's being had....then it all immediately went to shit and honestly thats really disappointing. this incident, this article, are worth talking about. extensively, openly and honestly. why do people have to come in and troll and thus everyone derail. it's so endlessly frustrating.

 

I feel like I read an exact replica of this thread at least once a week with different trolls.

 

I think thats why there are a few ppl calling for everyone to “rise above” the troll instead of resorting to the same “fuck off!” mentality and piling on, just report the incendiary remarks, ignore, and continue to focus on the meaningful discussion instead of getting swept up in the rage posting and petty civil wars.

 

This thread has been a real rollercoaster. Thankful that, for the most part, this site and community continues to make me think more and want to be better/understand what men like myself need to do to be better.

 

While I understand this sentiment, I’m kind of over “rising above” and not calling out bigots for what they are at this point, personally.

 

This

 

I don't think anyone ever said be nice to bigots, including me. I just called for engaging in discussion with those who are moderate. This site has a very fine line on what a bigot is and who is worthy of discussion. If you left the bubble of this site, you'd see there are a variety of opinions on Aziz (2 such opinions, the Atlantic Article and NY Times piece made it here). On this site, there is only ever one view, and every other one is wrong and most of the time bigoted. I don't understand how issues can reach national attention, and sow such discord, be dismissed so easily with an 'everyone is wrong but me'. I choose poor timing commenting after Terry's comments (which was unchangeable and bigoted as they come) and I apologize if it looked like I was defending that specific behavior. However, I guarantee anyone who posted anything like the 2 aforementioned articles in an articulate way, would also get a 'fuck off'. I've seen it before. That is what bothers me. If there's ever going to be a true movement from all people, you have to understand the moderate view and why something is clearly racist/sexist in one scenario but not another and work on closing that gap. Otherwise, America will move forward with people living in their own separate realities. And for the record, I will be honest and say that I often occupy that middle ground and see blatant examples that disgust me and i speak out against, but i also see other instances where it seems like a stretch. I learn a lot through discussion and I think this particular situation is one where I can learn (am learning) and others can too if they where first allowed to voice a contrary opinion without the mob mentality of lets chase the bigot out.

 

I understand the desire to drill into someone that is clearly on the wrong side of an issue and being obstinate about it.
I really do. Justified rage is very alluring. But if you look at how the conversation in this thread was going on page 1 versus pages 2-5, I think it's easy to see the cost of us all giving into that desire. There's a real loss of potential that happened as far as a meaningful discussion and as someone posted previously, it seems to play out the same way over and over unfortunately. We need to change something about the way we react in order to get out of that rut if we want these forums to be anything more than what they currently are.

 

again, for the like umpteenth time, had Terry come in and said something like "it just sounds like a bad sexual encounter to me. what am I missing?" or something to that effect of trying to learn and understand, the conversation would have went very differently.

And the thing is that's taking into consideration that Terry didn't even read Kiana's post about her experience, about why what Aziz did was the same actions as other assaulters, and her experience and perspective as a woman and as someone who went through something similar. Like, that's the kicker. he didn't even have to ask. She laid it all out there for him and for anyone else who could read a couple paragraphs. That's the thing, he never stepped back to consider any other perspective or analyze his reaction at all, he made a drive by shit of a post to stir shit up, ignored a woman's perspective and her multiple posts on the issue, and did not make the bare minimum effort to learn.

That doesn't even deserve to be reported and ignored, imo. that's why i told him to shut the fuck up. that kind of shit can't be treated with respect, it doesn't deserve kindness, it doesn't deserve an honest debate (because they're not coming from a position of trying to learn to begin with), it doesn't deserve to be ignored. It deserves to be called out, shamed, shut down, and piled on.

There's no debate, discussion, or response out there that was going to be any more productive for Terry or anyone reading this comment section that shares his toxic, problematic, and harmful views than a "fuck off."

 

From my experience, I think this site is pretty tolerable to people who don't have the best opinions, and if you're willing to look at the perspective of other users who reply to your opinions then it is productive for both. I have had a few bad opinions on here and was pretty arrogant with them to begin with, especially when I had a bombardment of people telling me how my opinion(s) sucked, but after sitting back and reading all of their comments and looking at the situations from a view other than mine, I was able to see what was wrong with my opinions. I took some time away from this site and decided to change my username and forget about it (although i'm sure those will still be in the dark corner of my post history).

If you think your opinion is going to be controversial and will only led to rude comments towards you then it's best to stick to topics that you don't have bad opinions in, or better yet, just close your browser and do something else with your time.

No one on this site wants to dislike anyone. The point of a message board is to talk about things you enjoy, but after seeing tons of off-putting opinions the tolerance level grows thin and that won't be beneficial to anyone or any conversation.

 

Well said Dylan and Justin.

 

I'm glad you've come around to see the error of your ways, Birdman.