What to Do With Brand New on End of the Year Lists • Page 5

You are not a loved one of Jesse Lacey. You're a person on a website who likes his music. You personally "forgiving" him means literally nothing and only serves to make the actual victims feel unheard. You can like Brand New still in private and hell, you can even think maybe Jesse isn't that bad of a guy. We won't agree on that, ever. But there's a huge difference between your personal decisions and feelings and loudly broadcasting support for an outed abuser under the guise of "forgiveness."

In a more general sense, yeah, I guess you could forgive a loved one's abuser, but again, you'd most likely just be further alienating the person you claim to care about, and for what? To stay friends? To have a false sense of closure while the actual victim is still hurting? Again, what does your "forgiveness" accomplish other than making it so that you don't have to think about it anymore? Are you going to go to your loved one and say "well you see I forgave them for hurting you, you don't have to, but I did!" Come on.

I'm also going to ignore your absurd straw man closing sentence. Enjoy your day.

 

Holy hell... i am not defending Jesse Lacey. I was responding to someone who said "You cannot forgive someone for mistreating someone else," and then justified my stance by a friend/family member example.

 

but you are not a friend or family member, so now you're really reaching. you started this thread by bringing up the unfounded mental illness claim, and you ended by likening yourself to a loved one and comparing it to murder. stop.

 

I'm only going to respond to the bolded part: There's a really special thing about helping someone heal/forgive someone. I'm not encouraging someone to pressure anyone to do so who isn't ready, and they may never be ready and that's OK. But the people I look up to (friends, family members) are forgiving people. I think it's an important quality. And i think it's contagious.

 

Know what's also a pretty special thing? Not being a fucking creep and doing this to women

 

For a fee I can have anything forgiven. Especially if it's someone who is not associated with me at all.

Who wants to buy some indulgences!

Getcha indulgences here!

Real Roman Catholic Church indulgences!

Guaranteed to lower your punishment for your sins!

 

Man, you're really looking for likes aren't you? Apologies for offending you or anyone else. Do not forgive me until the original person i quoted forgives me.

 

All right. Let me make this more simple for you. In the case of abuse, in the hypothetical, since that seems to be how you want to discuss things, you are not entitled to any part of the narrative. You are not in charge of deciding who is worthy of forgiveness on behalf of someone else. In fact, I think it's some bullshit that you would possibly make someone deeply uncomfortable and unhappy just to satisfy your selfish desire to not have to "live with that"...when the person whom the decision actually rests with cannot.

Not that I have to spell out my real, lived trauma for you, but I am speaking from experience. In real life, I am deeply hurt and angry when I find out people still speak to my abuser. I have literally cut people out I've known for years because their decision to "forgive" him for what he did to me only serves to make me feel like my experience didn't matter. That tweeting at this dude or hanging out with him occasionally is more important than taking a stand for me, as a victim, and telling him they just cannot associate with such a person. Idk what else to say because that's really what it comes down to. Respecting the wishes of victims.

 

brother, i don't need the likes, my shit posting pulls that carriage.

but seriously what a fucking weak argument

 

"you're really looking for likes aren't you?"

jfc

 

I can totally understand that and I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. You've honestly given me more to think about on this subject. But i am no way, shape, or form, saying anyone should be in charge or deciding who is worthy of forgiveness on behalf of someone else. I'm talking about how something like this can shake families. How there's a ripple effect involved. People carry around hate for lots of things, and can even pressure others to do the same. I don't agree with that.

 

go microwave your balls ben

 

I appreciate that you want to think on it. I'm not trying to be hostile, this is just something I care very deeply about. Please also consider that no one is trying to pressure you to "hate" anyone, especially in this specific case. Only to let the victims have control of their narrative and feel heard by a community.

 

i deleted the initial comment because it was more attack than substance

you are free to forgive as you see fit. i understand what it's like to deal with reassessing a piece of art you value because of the actions of those who made it - i think after the last six months, everyone on earth has been there. but it has no place in the larger narrative and does nothing for the victim, and that is all that matters.

 

I was hostile first, I appreciate you continuing dialogue afterwards. I certainly don't feel pressured in this case (it's a band I like... waaaaaaaay way way insignificant in the grand scheme of things).

 

man, has this year absolutely slaughtered the word narrative

 

Yeah you've been more attack than substance in all your posts towards me and I've at least attempted (and clearly failed) in conveying what i thought were substantive posts on this subject.

I get what you're saying. I hear you loud and clear.

 

you called someone an idiot and accused me of posting for likes when your argument crumbled, i owned up to mine and you don't have to own up to yours, but if you're gonna hide behind mine then feel free to fuck off again, you're blocked anyways

 

Any defense of this guy just sounds like "People should be able to assault children if they're in bands I like"

 

Can't we all just talk about how After Laughter is AOTY?

 

So your post isn't just stupid, it's stupid AND irrelevant. That clears up the misunderstanding completely.

Ruining people's lives doesn't deserve forgiveness. It deserves punishment.


Do you know how self serving you sound? "Man, Jesse Lacey is a sexual abuser but I forgive him." oh... OK? Like, why do you think your forgiveness of him matters at all? You can't hold on to that anger? You're not the god damn victim. Grow a spine.

If Jesse's actions make you upset and uncomfortable for a good reason. Trying to not be upset or made uncomfortable by it is erasure. It's that simple.

 

Hey - that was a broader conversation with someone else, not directly related to Jesse Lacey, but being able to forgive others when you're not the direct victim.

You can argue my post was irrelevant. But the self-serving stuff is off the mark.

 

Change Jesse Lacey to literally any other name and the point still stands.

Forgiving someone when the victim hasn't can serve no one but you and the perpetrator of abuse.

 

While I have decided that I am still able to personally listen to their music, I kept the album off my list out of respect to both the people on this forum and the victims.