What to Do With Brand New on End of the Year Lists • Page 2

Oh, and for the record: it wouldn't be my album of the year even if I was going to put it on my list.

 

Imagine being upset abt an “echo chamber” of people who condemn abusing women and harassing teenagers.

 

feel that. messing with minors, it's like, welcome to 50-21, you dont even get a blurb anymore

 

Ughhh... “separating art from the artist.”

Just... omg... is it to difficult to be like.. “the biggest musical influence in my life is a sexual predator and that sucks he also cheats on his wife a lot.”

Separating art from the artist is just a cop out so one doesn’t have to acknowledge things like predatory behavior and worse. Cause ya know if you met your favorite music artist you wouldn’t be all chill and like “oh I feel nothing for this individual in my presence who made art that is so near and dear to me cause I separate art from blah blah blah. It’s just another person!”

I mean I’m pretty sure it’s why we see a live show... to see the artist do said art things in personz ya know?

 

also all art is personal unless it's really shitty art

 

I'd say Science Fiction is my AOTY. Their body of work as a whole is tainted for me in certain respects, and I don't listen to their music the same necessarily, but I've enjoyed Brand New's music for over a decade, it's part of who I am. I'm not going to forcibly deprive myself of something significant to me as a person because of things I had and have no control over, it just doesn't impact me in the way it has some of you. Maybe that's selfish, maybe as a person who has never experienced anything similar to what his victims experienced, I don't understand, I'm not sure. I'm glad the awful things he's done have come to light, and I hope those he's affected find solace in that.

I understand and respect anyone's decision to exclude Science Fiction from their AOTY list. Jesse Lacey has done some incredibly scummy things. I really enjoy Science Fiction. For an AOTY list, for me it's as simple as that.

 

Science Fiction is 100% my AOTY but Jesse’s actions hit hard to the core. It’s tainted the band’s discography for me for sure but it doesn’t change the fact that the music has always been there for me when I needed it. I hold value in that. For me it gets to being able to separate the art from the artist. Do I love Jesse Lacey anymore as an artist? Not really. Disappointing would be an understatement for how I feel about him. Do I still love the music Brand New as a unit has created? Yes.

 

This was a good article, and I'm glad I got to hear the reflections from three different music publication writers/editors. That being said, I feel that CoS's position paints this issue as a bit black & white. Possibly contrary to popular opinion, I do feel it is possible to acknowledge an album as being significant while also condemning the allegations of abuse. At least I'm doing both. When I say that Science Fiction and Brand New mean a lot to me, I'm not saying that what Jesse did is okay. Nor when I say that I'm on the side of victims and that they have my back 100% am I saying that this music is magically non-existent or terrible.

For me to claim otherwise would be dishonest. I'm not going to tell anyone else how to do their End of Year lists, but I'm not going to apologize for putting SF as my AOTY if it really was my favorite record in 2017. It's messy and complicated, like life.

 

I can at least see an argument when discussing things like a director, or someone that you're not seeing/hearing constantly ... but the lead singer/songwriter of a band? Yeah, the art is the artist or at least a tangible extension of the artist more times than not.

 

Yeah, actively choosing to promote it, and as you said "draw attention to some of your favorite acts that others might enjoy," is a clear line for me.

 

As someone who has never been to a Brand New show, nor bought any merchandise outside of the SF CD, why does it have to be a cop out? Why can't I just enjoy the music without automatically being labeled an indirect supporter of Lacey's actions? I'm obviously not as invested in BN as most of you were, but come on.

I have no desire to attend a BN show. If I ever met Lacey by chance, there would be no conversation or fan meltdown. I have no interest in giving any kind of monetary support to Lacey or BN. I vehemently condemn his abuses against minors and adult women alike. With that being said, I don't relate the allegations to his band's music. They don't taint the music for me. I feel I can separate the two. I guess I'm just a bad person though.

This can go back and forth forever. But I'm just telling it like it is in my shoes.

FWIW: SF is not my AOTY. I do enjoy the album though.

 

Like even the comments in here about people calling it their AOTY even though Jesse sucks. If I ever see I Love You Daddy, which I probably won't, I'm not going to jump online to talk about how it was my favorite movie of the year

Y'all can enjoy things privately, you know that right?

 

I removed them from my list.

...but as I said there, I kept Decapitated. Their innocence will actually be determined in court. If they are found guilty or change their pleas, I will completely distance from them too.

 

And here, folks, we have the magical solution to the "I found out that the creator of some music I love is lowkey a monster" quandary.

Listen all you want. If you publicize that action, you're supporting the artist. That's why "separate the art from the artist" in public is nonsense.

(Also, I'm really, really sick of having to explain to folks (usually men) that repetitive, long-term cheating is not just morally questionable, it's abusive behavior that ALWAYS goes hand in hand with all kinds of other psychological abuses (in long term relationships, it pretty much has to: for example, pathological lying, gaslighting, invalidation of sexual consent, demoralization, the list goes on) and is morally reprehensible. If you don't understand that, it means you've never loved someone who behaves that way: and I hope you never do. But you need to understand in turn that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when you say crap like that. What we're talking about here is not just "I messed up and slept with someone else one time" and equating the two helps nobody.)

 

Answer: You put it in the trash, where it and the rest of the band's legacy belongs. Good riddance to a predator and his three silent supporters.

 

I registered for this one and only post.

I was physically, verbally and sexually assaulted in my life.

I will never justify the horrific actions of a human being to do this kind of thing to another. However, I do believe in forgiveness. I came here for just that. (Hence my username). I will not read this thread any longer. Nor will I post again.

Jesse Lacey - your victim will never be the same. I do believe you are a decent human being and have learned from your actions. I will always love your music and will continue to do so. I hope that the person you hurt finds the help she needs as your actions are unjustifiable.

Jason Tate - shame on you for shutting down someone who does wrong. The lack of forgiveness in this world is why we are in the state we are. Maybe you can set up donations to victims in such a case - but to say the things you have is an embarrassment to the community to which you represent. Everyone makes mistakes and I can't listen to you any longer!! Shame on you #forgiveness

 

It is literally no one’s place to “forgive” an abuser for their actions except for the abuser’s victims. You have not been wronged, you have not experienced that pain, you are in no position to offer absolution. There is nothing shameful about holding shitty people accountable for their actions.

Also love how these people can create one off accounts to pop in to defend their gross faves but not the literal victims of abuse and assault. Fuck outta here.

 

This is extreme.

People deserve forgiveness, and it's everyone's "place" to forgive who they can find it in their heart to forgive. People do not need to hold out on forgiving someone until the person abused offers up forgiveness. And on the flip side, no one should be pressuring those who aren't ready to forgive to speed up the process.

 

Fuck does any other person's, aside from the victim's, "forgiveness" matter at all? As an excuse so people can convince themselves that they can still listen to the music? So that they don't have to think about the horrible shit that happened?

 

do you actually trust court decisions with rape cases? because i don't entirely

 

What are you forgiving him for? You cannot forgive someone for mistreating someone else. If the victims choose to forgive him, that's their choice and their prerogative. A community offering a faulty "forgiveness" so they can feel good about having the album on their year end list is an excuse at best and sweeping aside victims' feelings at worst.

How stupid does it sound to you for a friend of mine to call up my abusive ex and be like "you know what, I forgive you for all the horrible things you did to Kayla." How does that make any logical sense? What does it do? Nothing. Forgiveness has to start at the personal level, and it is not required of victims to to forgive their abusers. Call it extreme if you want. But if it doesn't start there, then it is hollow. If they don't want to forgive, then we cannot.

 

the system isn't always perfect so I don't think anyone can entirely rely on the courts for justice. the circumstances surrounding this particular case are questionable and the band maintain their innocence. when it's he said-she said I don't think our court can truly judge what happened, and neither can I.

could have happened? sure. I truly don't know. but unlike the plethora of accusations made against people in this music scene, these guys are actually going to be held and tried. I hope no one was assaulted but if she was, I also hope our system does the right thing.

 

Everytime I see your posts I feel an astonishing arrogancy, which is fairly unfortunate considering the fact how you ruined the stunning community of absolutepunk.net. I can honestly say most of the former members of the community would say the same. I don't know what happened to you or the site, the traffic numbers are nothing of this site to absolutepunk.net. I loved absolutepunk.net, but this chorus.fm thing sounds like a personal blog of you and only your opinion is valid (most of the time, because of your arrogance). Sorry to mention this, I visited absolutepunk.net back in the day daily, but after you switched to this chorus.fm thing with the departure of most of the old staff (who were way better writer than you) I just couldn't care less. And of course because of my negative opinion of the site I will get banned for sure. But that's how you roll these days Jason.

Sorry that I used a Brand New thread for this, but I just had to say this. I miss absolutepunk.net. The content, the new bands, the good reviews and the inspiring community. Tons of comments... instead of this dead valley now.

To have a relevant comment to the thread as well: I don't know yet if I'll will include them on the list, but Science Fiction was my AOTY contender with Converge and Glassjaw now pushing for it. Don't know yet if my hardcore or indie veins will win, but let's see. Just don't insult anyone who will include them, it's a personal choice.

Take care everyone.

 

we are the same community, bucko. dumbest shit i'll read today. enjoy your creepy fucking bands.

 

brand new articles: where people make an account to defend brand new then never be seen again