Captain America: Civil War (Joe & Anthony Russo, 5/6/2016) Movie • Page 22

Pretty sure it's a drug reference. After or during LSD or acid or one of those trips you're supposed to take orange slices or something if memory serves.

 

saw it opening night and really didn't like it. I used to be a huge fan of MCU until guardians (I know, I know, probably the only one. wish I could see what everyone else sees in that one). Ultron, despite its flaws gave me hope though. then this. ugh. I still really like chris evans as cap and bucky and falcon are cool for his sort of entourage or whatever you wanna call it but the whole movie didn't accomplish or say anything really. the villain was stupid af, the whole legal agreement was stupid. I get what marvel is, just another popcorn flick but the end of phase 1 and beginning of phase 2 were so much more developed when it came to ideas that were more necessary in evolving the overall universe. sorta what Jason said about stakes and shit.

 

Should of ended the movie playing Real Friends.

 

Was convinced the orange slice joke was about sports.

 

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that was the intention. haha

 

Actually, I'd say no. Sure, it was filled with actual words, but never ones of real substance. There was no real debate on the issue at the core of the fight beside a few passing discussions of surface level talk. Some vague threats and circular logic. The government: "There was collateral damage, we feel bad, we must put the superheroes in check, we're ok with more collateral damage to get there." Villain: "My family died so to rid the world of the Avengers I'm gonna kill more families." (God that plot's been done to death.)

There was no real talk about why Cap would feel the way he does besides basically "I trust myself and don't wanna listen to anyone to tell me when and where to go fight." But that argument was never actually made very well or given thought to what his proposal for if something goes wrong would be, what his counter argument for checks and balances is.

And then we get to an airport scene with literally "now we fight" and people running directly at each other with 90% of them not really on either "side" or believing in the actual issue but instead "recruited." We aren't given any good reason for, I'd argue, the sides of the two main characters here, but the rest of them (beside BP wanting revenge), we know aren't really fighting fighting.

And if we break it down: for what at that moment are they fighting for? To keep Bucky from being put in jail. They were there to get Bucky and put him in, we find out not long after, the underwater jail. That basically some "innocent" heroes get put in instead of Bucky with the outcome. And that Cap single handedly breaks into and rescues them by the end of the movie. So was there any reason to not just let Bucky go to the jail and go break him out? At each step the motivations for virtually everyone made me think the characters were dumb and couldn't see more than two feet in front of them (or the script made them purposefully stupid, which is also kinda bad). But for all the discussion about the motives about why Bruce and Clark were fighting, I thought this was just as poor. The resolution just as weak.

It may "make more sense" but that doesn't mean it doesn't completely diminish the stakes and create a fun fight to watch where you never feel any actual peril for any character or feel invested in what the reason for fighting is and what is at stake if one wins or loses. (And if you're the villain this remains a very convoluted way to get three people in a room together to drop the "omg parents" moment. And if you're gonna take all that time to put three people in a room together, and really wanna break up the band, you get them there, you separate Bucky and Tony in the same room, make Cap watch, and then you let Tony kill Bucky. Because he would. And that's how you actually ruin/kill the Avengers. Your masterplan being let's put Tony in a 2 on 1 and have them just go at it is really stupid way to end your master plan that sure took a lot of omnipotence to pull off already. )

Well, the other weird moments are that the entire fight was essentially pointless (rescue!), the master plan of the villain was to get three people in a room together and if this airport fight goes bad all his research (which somehow he was able to do but the biggest technical genius on the planet with AI that literally was inside of the internet can't get some old camera tapes or know about the magical red book hidden in a house somewhere) was for naught. We have two characters that we know can basically stop all of this right now if they wanted (Vision/SW), a couple just not there where we know this about as well, and this is all built on a house of cards that's pretty hard to believe actually would get to this place to begin with. I think I would have liked Tony turning actually bad even more. Going to that level in the comics was a brutal turn. The outcome for Cap holds weight. Sure, we know it can get reset later, but in the moment at least you feel something ... here, I really feel it was missing.

(Then add in the bad music, some really poor camera angle selections, and overall clunky dialog mixed with too many extra characters (Bilbo) not really adding to anything (quite a few others whose lack of presence was very noticeable), and a slow first act that I don't think sets the right stakes or arguments or motives for most of the characters, and I dunno, it was just an ok movie with a lot of flaws that I think go pretty deep. Some of the jokes were funny though, good job on whoever they hired to punch up the script. And Paul Rudd plays his character great, Spidey was fantastic, "Oh shit!" was the best moment in the movie (wasn't as sold on him finding even more "super-tech" in his web shooter at the end though). It was a fun movie. But just like I didn't hate BvS with the fire of a thousand suns, I didn't love this one. I think they both suffer from things you can pick out, both make a lot of mistakes in the script (and I bet this becomes even more apparent on further viewings once the adrenaline wears off), and both do things better and worse than the other. Overall, glad I saw both, but just like I don't think BVS was the worst thing ever made, I don't think this is the greatest ever made.)

OK, that doesn't change that it lowers the stakes and leads to ridiculous plots like a guy in a wig tricking a group that uses facial recognition to find people all over the world (except when they come in to interrogate your prisoner). I'll even admit it's a problem in most comic book stuff, but it is a problem. If you can track down Parker and flick your holographic video screen around the room from your phone, but you can't verify the identity of the one dude you put in the room alone with Bucky who you captured over a grainy black and white photo ... I mean, that's not great.

I'm glad it did though, at least that leads to a feeling of stakes at the time. Rather that than how it was handled with Felicity.

I'd assume because he made it. (Not a bad argument for organic shooters though).

(And if you do that the critics would destroy you.) I'm not arguing that it all eventually breaks down, I am arguing that the plot of this movie breaks down because of it and it's a weaker film for it.

/That was long winded and I don't wanna end up arguing against a movie I enjoyed just like I didn't like arguing for a movie I thought was only ok, but that seems to be my thing.

 

Probably the best movie to feature any of the main cast. Easily the best characterization of Spider-Man and its not even close. Ant Man was awesome as expected.

 

I don't think I like this as much as the original Iron Man or first Avengers movie. It's close with Winter Soldier. It's solid, though.

I loved Tom Holland but I'm not ready to definitively say he's the best onscreen Spider-Man yet. He absolutely has the potential to be, though I rolled my eyes at Tony's meta jokes about how young an aunt May Marisa Tomei is.

As far as superhero movies go I hold the Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2 in very high regard and find few modern superhero fare to be close to the levels of those two films. Batman Begins, Iron Man, Avengers, and Winter Soldier are strong entries.

 

I need to see this again. But as of right now, I do think The Winter Soldier is still Marvel's best so far.

There are some incredibly strong scenes and set pieces here, and while all of the characters are relatively handled/balanced well it does distract from having one strong story through out.

Having the one "casualty" be from friendly fire rather than an opponent accidentally going too far felt odd to me. I guess they didn't want to have to blame someone and can move on by having it be a friendly fire accident. But it loses some of the impact for me. It took away a moment where Cap could have at least paused and reconsidered his actions. From the funeral on, Steve didn't really struggle or doubt his point of view.

Eh, I need to see this again. There's a lot to think about.

 

Saw it this morning and prefer Winter Soldier to this. Spiderman was cool, and my friend who I went with said "Aunt May keeps getting younger and younger". Thought the villain was weak as well. Airport scene was cool, Spiderman fighting Cap was a good sequence. Some of the CGI was terrible as well.

Overall, good, not great movie.

 

I think most of my liking of this movie is due to the airport scene. Opening scene in Nigeria I was completely taken out of because of the shaky cam, it was real bad, also didn't really care about what was going on. After that is was good, I agree and have been saying this elsewhere too, but yeah the other characters aren't fighting, or don't have enough motivation for me other than Tony, Cap and Black Panther. I wouldn't even have minded it if it wasn't for the Black Widow line "we're still friends, right?". Took me out of the fight for a second. However, the bit after the airport with Cap, Iron Man and Bucky was good.

Spiderman, probably the best yet, Peter Parker? Not sold on that yet. There's definitely a lot of confirmation bias and "oh Marvel have him, not Sony, so it must be amazing" going on. Spiderman was running along the line of almost being annoying during the fight for me. But he didn't cross that line in the end and overall the Spiderman part of Holland's performance was great.

Wish someone had died in the film though. Marvel need to add some proper stakes in these films. Set up a great chance for Scarlet Witch to be the one to do it with her whole arc during the film as well. And I don't mean a War Machine character, a proper Avenger. But airport scene pulls this up to a 9/10 film for me.

 

Loved this. Also, the notion of these guys sitting around and having a lengthy debate about the merits of both sides instead of a fight with pulled punches is hilarious to me, and I wouldn't mind seeing that.

Did the score remind anyone else of Home Alone?

 

It's probably been said already but it was really weird that he just had to kiss his dead girlfriend's niece, right? Made worse by the fact that unless I just don't remember her at all from the other movies, she was a new character for this one and didn't really have a lot of time for that to develop

 

She lived in the apartment across from him in Winter Soldier. She was spying on him for SHIELD or something.

 

In football, high school at least, they give players orange slices when they have really bad leg cramps

 

My wife and I were the only ones who laughed at the orange slices joke. Maybe it would've landed if they said Capri Suns or something.

 

Yeah, I feel like anyone who played youth sports got the orange slices line. It got a decent laugh in my theater.

 

It's probably been said in the previous 20+ pages but the bit I couldn't get over about this film was the government appears willing to let aliens attack and cause havoc and damage bills and enslave the population or whatever, but hey - don't help unless you can do it without collateral damage. That really should have been the first logical argument from camp avengers when presented with the 'you cause collateral damage' complaint - 'what if we didn't help at all?'

Apart from that ... spiderman ... granted I've never liked the character (sorry spidey-posse, not a fan - third incarnation not winning me) - but add to that now Stark is shaping Spidey's formative creation story (sponsored him, gave him the hi-tech suit etc) - maybe this is from the comics but how does it help spidey's character develop - "hey you've got spidey-powers? here's an endless supply of Stark cash - but don't give any to foxy Aunt Mae, she's gotta live in near-poverty for counter-balance".

 

Saw this tonight. I enjoyed Tom Holland as Spidey/Peter Parker. Not enough to say he's the best one yet, perhaps after another performance.

I've always loved the Winter Soldier character but I find it incredible how Sebastian Stan hasn't had many lines in the past 2 CA films yet his performance is great and has such an impact. Maybe this is heightened by Caps close ties to him.

Black Panther was great, excited for his film. Scott Lang and Hawkeye were also highlights for me. Hawkeye has been such a secondary character but I thought his role in this one was his best.

 

No one laughed in my theater. But I get the sports connotation now.

 

I took it as a punchline to him mentioning that the only time he'd tried to go giant before he'd passed out.

 

Orange slices landed insanely well in my theater.

Spider-Man and Ant-Man were my highlights. In a film world where some of the characters feel like friends, it felt like to me these inclusions -- and Black Panther, definitely, too -- all earned their moments as much as the moments we got between our "friends."

The fight at the airport was a delight for the part of me that has always just wanted to see superheros beat each other up. I think they handled it so much better than any of the similar X-men fights we've seen. Though, I think X-men typically makes the stakes feel much higher. (Though, this may be because of the announced Marvel films, the stakes are lost because we know who has films coming up, so it removes the "will they survive?" suspense. We saw this work as detriment to The Hobbit films recently, and it's my main concern for Rogue One.)

But there was also this weird tension of being the third wheel in watching your other two best friends fight that seemed to linger over the entire movie. In some instances (Natasha vs Clint), this tension was handled perfectly: "We're still friends, right?" Other times, it was clunky (like Clint talking to Tony in the prison).

However, in the middle of the Capt/Bucky vs Iron Man fight in the finale, part of me began to actually believe that Capt would kill Tony. So that's good on them for that scene. Totally didn't appreciate Black Panther's cut away scene totally breaking any sort of tension for that fight, though. Found that directorial/editing choice interesting.

 

Definitely in the top MCU films. The airport scene was great, showing each superhero's abilities effectively. The final fight scene was good too. It had the emotion the airport didn't have. Daniel Brühl was good as Zemo as well. Also no one in my theater caught on to the orange slice joke, I guess no one else played youth baseball besides me.

 

Box Office estimate is $181m

 

Holy chamoly!

401.8 million worldwide.