General Politics Discussion (III) [ARCHIVED] • Page 292

Of all the things to attack Hillary on, the staying with a shitty partner one I think I disliked the most, personally.

But, I dunno what else to say beside what I already have ... yeah, she sucked, more people shoulda spent the few minutes and voted for her anyway, link to Chomsky piece, I hate that I was right about how much worse Trump would be ... la la la, blah.

 

Oh christ, he's even talking like Trump now.

 

I can't wait until we have a president who is a Poster. There are already multiple Posters in congress, like the vaping congressman who also posts about his wife on bodybuilding.com. Trump could be considered a Poster I guess, he loves twitter, but I'm talking about someone who grew up as a Poster. A member of Poster culture. That is gonna rule

 

Yeah it's a very shitty policy that has real world results that will hurt more people than had you just realized you weren't voting for 1993 Hillary in the first place. You do know that, right? You don't get to try and claim the moral high ground by talking about how Hillary as first lady supported a shitty thing 20 years ago and then admitting Trump's policies are going to be "legendarily inhumane....BUT"...

As Jason has pointed out many times, she did not do that...she tried, repeatedly, to get people to listen to her about what she was going to do to help out of work rural peoples. And I believe I and others tried to tell people here that there was no evidence a loss in the election was going to move them more to the left. people tried to make the "lets punish them" argument but itt was always gonna be more complicated then that.

 

hey you know maybe if you didn't wanna have this conversation today you shouldn't have posted all those friends gifs. we've all started this convo at one point or another but I think this one is on you guys

 

dont forget asking how bernie's chances are.

i really think he has this election in the bag

 

she would have been demonized anyway on that one

 

Because the husband/wife relationship is a bit different, especially one that started when wives were still expected to do certain things for "their man"...and as much as you or I would have liked her to basically throw her career away (at the time) to do the right thing, it gets kind of cringey when you think about how she would have been treated by the media if she had. Idk...it's not really a situation I'm good at putting myself in, so hard to really form a good argument around it. On the surface I agree with you, but once I start thinking about it more it gets a bit harder and more uncomfortable, IMO.

 

Put it like this: if someone calls me ******, I probably will never trust them. Similarly, if someone makes me a ****** by facilitating the racialization of poverty, prison, homeless, etc., then I'll likely never trust them. At the very least, they will remain suspect in my eyes. However, if they actually do the work of attempting to undo those things they helped create, then I'd might consider them less suspect. In Hillary's case, she was super racist as soon as it became clear she could not win the black vote, which was only, what, eight years ago. She spent some time in the administration, during which she pressed the administration to intervene in Libya, thereby causing chaos, which lead to casualties. Oh, and now it is a place where dark skinned Africans are being lynched and sold into slavery. She gave some speeches on Wall Street. Then, she showed up about two years ago, with woke language and I'm supposed to believe her. Doesn't seem like she really put in the work to distance herself from her anti-black racism.

 

Definitely was my gif posting.

 

I do understand what you mean, and what jason meant with his criticism of that, but I still would not have felt bad if her political career died because of it. I don't care about anyone's political career. I hope all political careers are ended, and I hate all members of the ruling class. And, of all things, this seems a pretty good reason

 

yeah, exactly

 

I'm still annoyed we were right about that one too. But if the pool of likely voters starts to only contain a group of people that believe strongly in center-right ideology, it's gonna keep happening too. And more and more studies keep coming out about how much more the right's language of self-determination and whatever does resonate with people better. "We'll let you keep more of the money you make" is swaying people more than "we'll give you XYZ." 'Tis not good.

 

I see this shit in real time talking with my students, too. It's a hell of a tide to paddle against.

 

Yeah I don't so much feel bad for her because it's a political career, but rather because it seemed to be something she genuinely cared about and want and all that. Like I imagine if I were stuck in the same position and were being asked to basically turn on my significant other AND do something that would ruin my career in education, it would be a pretty hard choice and I'd probably be mad at anyone who was trying to force me to make it, honestly. Again I can't really excuse what she did...I just have a hard time deciding for her? if that makes sense?

Obviously there's no telling what would have happened and if the future would have played out as it did, but I think while it would have ruined her career in teh short term, the way society has moved left on womens issues would probably have opened the door for her to make a big come back in some way. She might not have been so popular at the time, but by now probably would have been getting hailed as a hero of feminism in a much more enthusiastic way then she kind of gets already.

 

I think that sometimes when I hear students speak, but then I remember that's kind of the high school attitude. I used to be like that too when I was 14 and thought everything was as simple as "Why don't poor people just work?!" or "taxes are stealing all our monies!"...there just isn't enough awareness at that age to have any real good informed opinions for most haha.


Says a lot about the Republican party that most of their views sound perfectly reasonable to teeanged boys

 

Lol I'm not taking a moral high ground pretty sure yall have it covered. I'm just explaining how Clinton failed to convince me that she deserved my vote.

I Don't know what you're talking about. I was always #woke

 

... and not good for anyone that most never grow out of that phase.

 

I suppose. It just seems weird to me that, if the problem is "20 years ago she supported X", and the politician 20 years later running saying "I support Y", with Y being more or less the polar opposite of X, then the problem has been addressed and what's left to do is fight to get it implemented. *Shrug*...as you say, different strokes I suppose.

 

Yeah, obviously at this point the animating factor is their parents' views. All I can do is suggest the alternate view point and insist they come in with some understanding of the issue if they want to talk about it. "You have a problem with illegal immigrants? Why? Give me facts, not a slogan." Not sure how much I'm moving the needle, but I can tell you for sure some of these guys are coming in to class more informed so they can engage in the discussion.

Also, with it being a Catholic school, there's some work from our theology department I double down on, and some I feel the need to undermine actively, too, which complicates it.

 

I am a teenaged boy and am personally offended

 

He's still selling merch

 

13-15 year old teenaged boys are the worrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrst.

The girls aren't that much better either lol.

I didn't really start caring much about politics until I was about 17, and "caring" is being loosely defined there. Bush invading Iraq and the kind of blowback against that when I was 15 kinda got me into the hating of Bush thing, realizing I didn't like Republicans, hating their policies, etc.

 

Not all teenaged boys

Sorry sorry

 

I'll be real, my parents' political views influenced me until ~2012, so that means I said like really racial things but you never think anything of it because, hey, dad said it so it must be right! Particularly in latino familial power structures, you kinda just follow along. Luckily, my mom tends more center-left, so that was a start for me and eventually research led me to being what I am today. I don't have the personal experience of being abused by, say, Cuba's communist regime, so I can analyze it slightly more objectively (although it still rubs me the wrong way of course.) I don't know, American education is imperialist and highkey justifies a lot of unjustifiable things so im not surprised that most kids that just hear their parents spout off ridiculous shit go with it.