2017 NFL Draft Thread [Archived] Football • Page 37

Let's do a damn mock draft

 

Matt Miller has the Eagles taking John Ross....in the second round lmao.

Reminds me of this gem.

 

Corey Davis and John Ross in the second but Chidobe Awuzie and Quincy Wilson in the top 20 lololololololol.

 

The draft is a fun thing

 

Crossing my fingers against a Jabrill Peppers pick

 

Why would you be doing that? Peppers would thrive in that defense.

 

If John Ross was still around in round 2 I could let Marqise walk

 

John Ross shouldn't be around outside the top 15, let alone round two. Same goes for Corey Davis. If either are available at the end of the first, trade up.
I'm fine letting Marqise walk regardless. If I had to re-sign him this year he's taking a cheap three year deal or he's walking.

 

I mean Lee isn't an "early extension target" by any means but at the same time if we don't give Bortles that year 5 extension, that's 20 million more dollars/year to spend on making the next QB cozy. Add in the fact Julius Thomas is gone as well, thats another 9 million freed up for a receiving target since we waste TEs. Like i said, silver lining to having a shitty QB is maybe we get to keep all my favorite weapons.

 

I expect Bortles gets the fifth year extension. An offensive line makes a QB cozy. Not three receivers. The tight end position needs to be addressed too, can't just say "well we never use them right so fuck it." The answer is obvious: use them right.
Telvin is top priority. Then Linder. Then Robinson. Then Cann, Fowler, and Colvin. Plus you have to make sure you have significant space for Ramsey, possibly Jack and Yannick as well. If Lee is as good as he was last year and healthy, he's above Cann and them for me. But Telvin, Linder, ARob need to take priority.

 

i'll just say it: at least half the teams in the NFL don't have a good tight end, nor do they pay that TE anywhere CLOSE to 9 million a fucking season lol. I'd argue that literally more teams have a good slot WR. Cutting bait with Julius was an awesome idea imo. Just because we had a great TE doesn't mean we need to replace him, he didn't do anything really

And i'll also say it: having a good receiving TE is a luxury and not totally necessary. You're always preaching responsible draft picks. Jaye Howard is so far off that radar it's not even funny.

My intent is not to hold 3 "paid" receivers longer than a season. The good thing about resigning Hurns early is we can cut him early if we need to to make room for the better two receivers. Might make us sweat financially in the short term to carry all three... but again, no Bortles gives us the cushion to transition this awkward contract situation we've gotten ourselves into.

Telvin and Linder are the only early resigns. How Lee and Robinson perform this year will make a huge impact on whether the Jags consider each/either of them worth their paygrade, but the fact that Lee outperformed Robinson last year definitely made things a lot more interesting, and that's why I think Caldwell's just gonna let that competition play out before making a move. I really don't think it's impossible that both play really well in 2017 and both prove to be very hard to let go.

Subversive idea: I still love ARob as a person and his 2015 season is the best damn one-on-one jump ball tape I've seen since Keyshawn Johnson in the 90s... but he can't beat double coverage. And if he gets paid some crazy 20 million/season salary he will constantly disappoint us because defenses will drape him like last season. I'm legit hoping Lee emerges and we can pay him a respectable 12/13, because in that scenario ARob might actually be more valuable as a trade piece than to sink all that money into featuring him in our offense.

 

Julius wasn't a great tight end and I'm not suggesting paying anyone that much or that it wasn't a good idea to get rid of him.

I have no clue what you mean by Jaye Howard.

Having a good tight end is a luxury, having a great one is a wild card. Travis Kelce, Jimmy Graham (in NO), Rob Gronkowski, etc... all OWN the field. The only reason Tyler Eifert isn't the best contributor in Cincinnati is because he shares the field with A.J. Green. Tight end is a tough position to predict and recent classes have been bad. There are ten tight ends in this class that I'd be pumped, to varying degrees, to draft.

Lee outperformed him but Robinson was still better in nearly every statistical category. Robinson's paygrade is higher, sure, but I'd rather give $13per to ARob than $10per to Lee.

 

I see him as a jack of all trades, master of one type guy. He might be able to hang next to Shazier on passing downs. And take Williams out.

With Bens window closing, I'd rather get a more immediate need filled with the first round.

 

Set it up. I'll help as much as I can.

 

Peppers is a free safety all day. He can probably play corner too.

A team would be wasting his talent playing him at linebacker.

 

You're suggesting we need to replace Julius with another TE threat and I'm saying he was superfluous the whole time.

none that I"d be pumped to draft over Fournette/linemen/linebackers. You said first three rounds.

you're kidding yourself if you think ARob is gonna come down to 13. I'd consider 16 a bargain. Lee being lowballed makes a lot more sense considering injury history and the fact that he's never gotten a real shot to be a WR1.

As far as ARob having better stats, well yeah he had a higher volume of targets to work with. Since ARob broke out our offense has focused on him and then rotated receiving options behind him. That doesn't negate my assertion that Lee was far more efficient when targeted and found separation against the defense more often in 2016.

 

ARob - 73 receptions, 151 targets (less than 50%) - 883 yards
Lee - 63 receptions, 103 targets (more than 60%) - 851 yards

I want a receiver who is open often over a receiver you have to constantly force the ball. I want ARob to prove to me he can have Dez Bryant short-area suddenness to pair with that size, and get himself open BEFORE the catch point, and not have his QB throwing all these picks in his direction trying to over-anticipate the play. His highlight reel is awesome all day but is he an easy target on a down-after-down basis? Last year he totally wasn't, and trying to target him anyway just got us into trouble, from the 4th quarter of the Packers game week 1 all the way down the line.

I know there are workouts to improve acceleration/burst and that it's not impossible but he needs to take that next step, he'll wash up really quickly in this league if all he can do at a high level is jump-ball. He has nice double moves, but the simple routes need to be elusive and smooth in order to elude bracket coverage, and those cuts can't be herky-jerky like double moves -- ARob is still nothing special at that aspect of his game, whereas that comes naturally to Lee.

 

Allen Robinson would be a lot better off if Blake Bortles wasn't his quarterback...

 

We still need to replace him with an actual tight end. Not Marcedes Lewis.

Fournette is better than any tight end, but the rest is you ignoring context. I also didn't just say first three rounds, I said 10 tight ends. This is the best tight end classes in a long time. If tight end is a need (starting TE is Marcedes Lewis, yo) then you can't afford to skip this year. Howard is probably a top 15 pick so he's out unless they trade down. Njoku probably won't fall out of the first but if he does I'd take him over Bolles/Robinson, who also probably won't fall out of the first. From there, I'd be stoked on Shaheen, Everett, Butt, or Leggett in the third. Kittle/Hodges would be a good pick up in the fourth. Sprinkle and Jonnu I wouldn't take before the fifth. Linebacker also is not as big of a need as tight end is. Telvin and Jack are the future while Poz was one of the best linebackers in the league last year, according to PFF. I'll take Raekwon, Beckwith, or Walker. Not big on anyone else, within reason. If they trade down for Foster, that'd be cool. But I don't think that's happening.

The Jags need to go best available need. That will almost always boil down to offensive line but Njoku falling is too good to pass up in the second. Same with Butt in the third.

You'd consider making him the second highest paid receiver in the league a BARGAIN. Dude, no haha. That's also not lowballing Lee. $10 million a year is more than he deserves.

Lee was double teamed far less and was rarely covered by a CB1. Take Robinson away and Lee does not perform like that.

Basically, Lee is more entertaining to watch and you're confusing that with better haha. Also what Anton said.

 

You did say first three rounds. Now, it was intentionally incendiary, and part of the same "elliott smith is not pop" post. But you said that.

Jake Butt in the third is a good deal I agree. I wouldn't spend higher than that considering we have far more pressing needs.

we're talking 2019 salary cap dude you are sorely mistaken if you think that 16 will be the second highest paid WR by then. Pretty soon that's the going rate for WR1s. Also, usually when somebody is "good" and due for resiging, they tend to top the market and reset the value for that position, even if they arent elite --- we see non-elite players get paid, what was previously elite money, just because that's how contract inflation works. And didn't we just have a conversation about how Lee isn't gonna take less than 10 when that's already Kenny Stills money?

haha dude i didn't just start watching football yesterday no need for the condescension. I watch his skill set and his game is more suited than ARob's in terms of finding open space on the field. More elusive doesn't have anything to do with looking flashy, it has to do with actually eluding defenders.

What Anton said goes both ways. Bortles throws a lot more picks when he's forcing the ball to a covered ARob and I'm sure the next QB would too if he doesn't continue to improve his route running.

 

Yeah, I didn't say that right now haha.

We have far more pressing needs sure, but that doesn't mean we can address them. If you need your transmission fixed but the parts aren't available you don't say "fuck it, make do." If it's between Njoku or Taylor Moton, whoever takes Moton should be fired on the spot. Though I would be surprised if he fell that far.

Allen Robinson is in his fourth year, he's getting re-signed this year. You seem to be under the impression that these contracts are exponentially rising. Receivers are one of the rare instances where the best get paid the best. Antonio Brown, AJ Green, and Julio Jones are all top five receivers not on their rookie contract. TY, who has been better than Robinson, is getting $13 million. Dez is getting $14. Robinson will not get more than Dez Bryant anywhere. No one will offer him that. $13 million a year is not a bargain. Hurns and Austin are literally the only examples of receivers being overpaid compared to the talent below them.
As for Lee, if he wants more than $10 million, he's shit out of luck. I don't know why you say Kenny Stills money when Kenny Stills is getting $8 million a year and has been FAR better than Lee. Lee will get Kenny Stills money. If he has a ridiculous season this year, maybe Pierre Garcon. But either way I'm not even positive he re-signs.

Because he's faster and consistently single covered by inferior corners.

Bortles throws bad passes to Robinson. It doesn't go both ways. It goes one way with an asterisk saying sometimes it's Robinson's fault. Kind of like a lane that runs one way for rush hour and the opposite direction for the rest of the day. Put Stafford on this team and we're singing a different tune.

 

thats a silly analogy when there are "transmission parts" available throughout the rounds. You also can't "fuck it, make do" because you can't drive a car with a broken transmission. Drafting a TE over a lineman of similar talent would be dumb, period.

Kenny Stills has NOT been far better lol. he had 440 yards and 3 TD last year. HIs best season didnt crack 750. Your opinion of Lee is dead wrong and way too pessimistic. Sometimes i take you seriously but not when you say Stills was "WAY" better than Lee, then it becomes clear you're reaching to make a negative point/take me down a few notches.

I forgot Stills got less than he was rumored. When the rumor was 10-11 mill, we legit had a discussion about how WRs are just getting paid off potential alone with nothing to show for it now, and that was your actual argument for why we can't keep Lee.

If Lee is consistently covered by inferior corners at WR2 then that sounds like he's ready to be tried as a WR1 huh???

and no, it's also a WRs job to make himself available. Robinson did not get separation last year and I don't know why you're trying to be such an apologist now, when you were disappointed by his play right along with me last season whenever we watched games.

 

I should've wrote jags debate in the title of the thread lol

 

I agree, it would be dumb. And that's not what I said at all. "Similar talent" is the key phrase there. My whole point is there is not similar talent. David Njoku is a better prospect than all but four offensive lineman. Maybe they fall, but precedent shows that tight ends are far more likely to fall while offensive lineman are not. Ramczyk will be gone, Bolles, Robinson, and Lamp should all be gone too. I'm fine with taking Feeney, but not over Njoku.

No he didn't lol. He had 726 yards, 9 touchdowns, and averaged 17.3 yards per reception. Stills has 20 touchdowns versus Lee's five, more YAC, and almost twice the yards. There is no way you can possibly even humor the notion that Lee has been better than Stills. Lee wasn't better than Stills last year and it was Lee's best season. There is zero argument that Stills had a worse four years than Lee.

Fair. But Stills got $8 million, not $10 million, so if Lee wants more he can walk haha.

That's literally not how that works haha.

It's also, yes. But Bortles takes most of the blame. Robinson didn't get much separation the year before either. His game relies on him being able to get to the ball. He absolutely had a disappointing year, I'm not saying otherwise. I'm just putting the blame in its proper place.

 

I literally just noticed your avatar. COYS!