Logan (James Mangold, March 3 2017) Movie • Page 13

That is crazy!

 

Finally saw this today and definitely did not feel like it was overhyped. Absolutely loved it.

 

I saw this yesterday. Such a great movie even just as a stand alone story. I don't think the gore is excessive. I felt it just added to the grittiness and was also nice to finally see Wolverine fight scenes with zero censoring. I always felt they never really showed how devastating his claws actually are in the pg-13 films.

 

So we all agree that dropping the opening at the X Mansion was a good idea, but did anyone else want to see a scene at the end where the kids arrive at Eden and it's real with some familiar faces there

 

That wouldn't have worked thematically. It had to be just the kids. Other cameos would have detracted from that.

 

Not really. I wouldn't change that final shot for anything. Immaculate final minutes to the film, gives me chills just remembering it.

I like the idea that there are no familiar faces left in this film's world, and that the kids have to rebuild from scratch. The X-Men we saw in the original trilogy has literally been buried, but from their sacrifice, a new generation can give the dream new life.

Plus, more surviving X-Men would ruin the weight of Logan and Xavier being all that's left.

 

Saw this on Sunday and apart from a couple of obvious plot points I found it to be incredible with a deeply ingrained sadness to it not just from a plot standpoint but from the fact I have been with Logan and Xavier through several films for nearly two decades with the original X-Men getting me into superhero films in general. So I have no shame in saying I was teary eyed at the end of this.

 

Yeah it's hard because it ending where it did was pretty perfect, but I don't think it would have ruined anything to add in a little more fan service. It would have tied into the comic books that X23 was into. Also the news report said that only 6 mutants and 100 injuries happened in the Winchester incident, so its not crazy to think that there are still some mutants/x-men scattered about. You'd still have the new kids need to rebuild theme going on.

 

Also no one can say they wouldn't lose their minds/have a huge smile on their face if an super old Magneto stepped out to great the kids. Ends on a happy note.

 

That'd be a cheap undermining of everything that came before. The final shot is perfect. This movie is about how drastically the world has changed and how a new generation has to exist in it on their own terms, not retreat into the familiar. In fact, it's about how the previous generation failed, so any ending that legitimized them would undercut that.

 

Fan service should be organic, and that wouldn't be organic.

If there were more X-Men, Logan wouldn't be so broken and alone. The Westchester incident was a year prior, but that still leaves a lot of time for the other X-Men to be killed off. This film seems to exist in a continuity based in part off of the original trilogy and other Wolverine films, without DOFP, so it's not a stretch to believe the team would be on its last leg two decades after a Last Stand-esque battle.

(Obviously the film's themes and tone are way more important than abiding by continuity, especially here, but if you really want to make sense of the film's continuity, it still makes more sense for everyone to be gone. Plus, talking continuity for the heck of it can be fun, lol.)

And, like, Magneto being there at the end would've sucked, lol. Both thematically and storywise.

 

Well I'm not so much into that thought process. No one knew that Prof X would get Alzheimer's or that Logan's adamantium would poison him. I don't think any of them failed by messing up anything, it's just life.

 

Like, how much less impact would Logan looking at that comic depicting Wolverine trying to save Rogue have had if there were still X-Men around? That brief but effective moment of melancholy wouldn't work with more X-Men lingering in a mutant Utopia/Eden.

 

I have no idea how this fits into continuity, I pretend its on its own because all the films mean nothing if Wov and Pro X's sickness can't be avoided lol. I think I remember a line where it says a lot of the mutants were killed by the Doctor, maybe through some virus or something.

 

Nothing in this world has fit into continuity since Origins, lol. And even if they did, this excellent film deserves to say "screw you" to it for the sake of its own story and themes. I just went there 'cause you were wondering how the X-Men would all be gone after the Westchester incident. But, the thematic issues are the main reason more X-Men couldn't fit in this film.

I do have my own theories on these timelines, though, because of course I do... lulz.

 

I only think it would work on the level of Wolverine thinking its all fake and X23 believing its all real. That would kind of tie it all together, but just like the X Mansion opening I'm glad they didn't do it for the stories sake.......as cool as it would have been.

I would read a write up of your timeline!
It can't be any crazier than the Zelda timeline they put out in the History of Hyrule book lol.

Another side note because I love what if': if Logan considers X23 his daughter, then wasn't X24 that they both killed his son?

 

X-24 was mindless/soulless, like an animal, and also seemingly partially mechanical (though the nuance of what it was didn't get addressed beyond what serviced the story). Meanwhile, Laura and the other kids were closer in their creation process to traditional biological children. Laura does wrestle in the comics with whether or not she has a soul, but ultimately, she does have humanity in spite of the conditions of her conception.


As for my timeline... I basically divide it into a few separate timelines with overlapping canon (much like how some comics fit into more than one continuity, such as Batman: Year One fitting into both a Miller continuity and the world of The Long Halloween).

The first timeline consists of First Class, Origins, X-Men, X2, Last Stand, The Wolverine, and the dystopia of DOFP. In this version, Xavier and Mystique never reconnect between the betrayal of First Class and their meeting in the original trilogy (where, if you think about it, they don't really get any chances to talk anyways), so that's why their past doesn't come up at all.

The second timeline consists of First Class, the past of DOFP, Apocalypse, Deadpool, the upcoming "Gifted" Fox series and other upcoming X-Men films, and the future of DOFP. Without Origins and X2/Last Stand, Wade Wilson and Colossus are freed up for Deadpool. (I could see Deadpool and X-Force having their own timeline, but Kinsberg is insisting that they have a way for everything to connect eventually if they find an organic reason, so I'm leaving it in here for now.) No more Origins also allows for Tatum's Gambit. For this to hold up, Jean Grey has to either not die in "Supernova" or die and then come back. And, a recast Logan has to come back into the picture by 2024. But, those would both be pretty easy to happen. If not, I guess we get another timeline!

The third timeline consists of Origins, X-Men, X2, Last Stand, The Wolverine, and Logan. (You can stick First Class in there, too, but it really doesn't matter either way.) The post credits scene in The Wolverine is still there to explain how Xavier returned, but DOFP is out because X-Men, The Wolverine, and Origins still need to have happened. Plus, there was a version of the Logan script that had a reference to Logan killing Jean Grey in Last Stand. This separate canon also lets the different versions of Caliban exist in Apocalypse and Logan, since they're different continuities. In this version, the Trask Sentinel program was stopped, but then Transigen got the mutants instead.

There are still some issues, but I think there are decent comic-book-y explanations for them. The biggest issue is character's ages in the second timeline, which is also the one they're sticking with going forward, but movies and shows cast people in weird ages (just look at Hollywood "high school," lol), so I think it still works decently enough. The weirdest character is Beast for this, but you can just say that his mutation affects his aging. Mutation could also be behind the change in Sabretooth from Origins to X-Men. The Emma in Origins was already explained as being a different character than Emma Frost when First Class came out, but if that's a stretch, just take Origins out of the first timeline (assume that Weapon X went differently there) and First Class out of the third one.

Oh, and of course Legion is its own thing; that, I guess, is the fourth timeline. Maybe they'll retcon it into one of the movie timelines, but I suspect they'll keep it entirely on its own. Both Fantastic Four franchises are their own timelines, too, though I could see them eventually bringing a form of the F4 into the second/current timeline. (If not, they can still cross paths via dimension-hopping, like CW has done.) And, like I said above, they still could make Deadpool and X-Force its own timeline instead of working it into their other projects.

 

We've been watching Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart play these roles for like 17 years. It's pretty crazy when I think about it.

 

I saw the first one when I was 11 or 12 (forget if I saw it in theaters or not). It came out the summer before I entered 6th grade.

 

Damn, that's impressive and makes sense. My hat's off to you sir.

 

You have done more work in answering the questions I had after viewing Logan than I think anyone over at 20th Century Fox has bothered with so thank you for that, hahaha.

 

Ha, I'm glad people like my timeline explanation.

 

It's fantastic @Tim, but I wouldn't expect anything less from you. Always a lot of thought put in!

 

I think I've only seen the first out of the xmen series.

How would I watch them "in order"? Including Logan