Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards, December 16, 2016) Movie • Page 59

From looking at the cut footage and the fact that from the beginning the whole crew were supposed to die, I really think that originally most, if not all of the team make it onto Admiral Raddis' ship, andthe Vader scene plays out the same only he wrecks the main cast. Maybe Disney thought that might be just a little TOO dark and graphic to do to the main cast. If you think about it, I don't think you really see any of the crew except K2 graphically die on-screen. 4 of them basically die in a flash of light as we cut away, and essentially all of them get caught in explosions.


Indulge me if you will, and imagine instead that the crew makes it off planet, and you think they're safe, and then Vader shows up and in a matter of seconds Vader Force-crushes Rook's neck and tosses him into a wall, slices through Chirrut's staff and cuts him in half, decapitates Baze, Force-pulls Cassian onto his saber as he gets one last shot off that grazes Vader's helmet, and then finally stabs Jyn through the door, and the last shot is the camera coming back around to Jyn's POV as she dies watching the Tantive IV pull away.
EDIT: Spoilers cuz i dont want to be THAT person who ruins it for someone.

 

Saw it again and the Tarkin CGI seemed less jarring this time, but maybe that's just because I was expecting it -- definitely enjoyed it more with another viewing, though.

 

I'm thinking this too. That would have been insane.

 

Kinda wish that's how it played out, ha.

 

@Allpwrtoslaves a lot of people have mentioned that. Would've been awesome

 

That would have been a lot better, ha.

 

The ending was really what detracted the most from the film for me, personally. Setting aside how rushed it was after the Vader scene, the whole concept of the Tantive IV being at the Battle of Scariff (and with Leia already on it) makes zero sense in relation to the beginning of A New Hope. First of all, Leia being at the battle would completely destroy her cover as a member of the Imperial Senate on its own, but then you add in the fact that Vader literally sees her ship leave and it's like, how did she or anyone else expect him to buy the story that they were "on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan?" Like, come on, that's some sloppy writing. That said, I didn't mind the way the whole crew died as it happened in the film.

All that said, I also wasn't a huge fan of CGI Tarkin, either.

 

I couldn't disagree with this more. After rewatching a New Hope, I thought the connection between the two films was extremely well done. The Tantive IV being at the battle with Leia on it makes sense--she was a traitor to the Empire and a member of the rebel alliance. If the Rebel Alliance sent most of their fleet, why wouldn't she be there as a high-ranking member? The Senate was in the beginning stages of being eliminated during this movie, she was powerless as a diplomat. Given her position in that situation, what other reply is she supposed to give when she's captured? Also, what alternate scenario exists where a different ship would get away only to just relay the plans to the Tantive IV to take them further? That is what makes zero sense. Vader saw her ship leave, so he was able track her down and stop her from getting to her final destination. Which he did. It wasn't even about selling the story to Vader as he was never going to buy it, it was about buying time. The Alliance was completely desperate to get those plans to a place where they could be analyzed. But they were captured. Caught red-handed. She knew she had to send the plans elsewhere (down to Tatooine) with the hope that the Empire wouldn't get them first.

 

After rewatching a New Hope, I thought the connection between the two films was extremely well done. The Tantive IV being at the battle with Leia on it makes sense--she was a traitor to the Empire and a member of the rebel alliance. If the Rebel Alliance sent most of their fleet, why wouldn't she be there as a high-ranking member?

-Because, if you watch A New Hope, you can see that she was supposed to be using her position in the Imperial Senate as a cover for her Rebellion activities. You (and a ton of other people, in fairness) appear to be operating from the assumption that all of these people (Bail Organa, Mon Mothma, many of the rest of the leaders of the Rebellion) were openly known to be members of the Rebel Alliance, which is not true at all. Setting aside the fact that people like the Organas and Mon Mothma were members of the Imperial Senate, the Empire would have arrested and jailed/murdered them if they were exposed as having helped the Rebellion, let alone secretly helped lead it. Hell, a major plot point of the film was the other leaders of the Rebellion refusing to attempt to steal the Death Star plans for fearing of failing and exposing themselves. Some of them even wanted to confess and surrender to seek the mercy of the Emperor. Leia was supposed to be an undercover rebel operative; being at the Battle of Scariff exposes her and compromises that.

The Senate was in the beginning stages of being eliminated during this movie, she was powerless as a diplomat. Given her position in that situation, what other reply is she supposed to give when she's captured?

-There is a difference between the old Galactic Senate (pre-Empire) and the Imperial Senate (post- Empire). Leia clearly states in A New Hope that she is a member of the Imperial Senate. It isn't uncommon for despotic dictators to retain the illusion of representation through a legislative body that, in practice, is actually just a rubber stamp for the dictator's policies. Since she is a member of the Alderaanian delegation, her "diplomatic mission" is essentially the same thing as when a member of Congress returns home to their state/legislative district to perform work for his or her constituents. And my whole point is that she should've never been in that situation in the first place.

Also, what alternate scenario exists where a different ship would get away only to just relay the plans to the Tantive IV to take them further? That is what makes zero sense. Vader saw her ship leave, so he was able track her down and stop her from getting to her final destination. Which he did.

-A small ship could've gotten away, and then Vader could have tracked that ship to the Tantive IV. The scenario does exists that some ships got away from the battle, after all. Red Squadron in Rogue One is made up entirely of the same pilots who assaulted the Death Star in A New Hope, after all (Red Five even dies, clearing the way for Luke to take his callsign). Again, though, it's just absurd she was even in that situation.

It wasn't even about selling the story to Vader as he was never going to buy it, it was about buying time. The Alliance was completely desperate to get those plans to a place where they could be analyzed. But they were captured. Caught red-handed. She knew she had to send the plans elsewhere (down to Tatooine) with the hope that the Empire wouldn't get them first.

-It's only about that now, having seen Rogue One. Back in 1977, it was about trying to convince Vader that Leia was innocent so she wouldn't be taken prisoner. Remember, the droids were already safely aboard the escape pod when Leia confronts Vader at the beginning of A New Hope. She certainly wasn't buying time for their escape (an escape that has its own glaring plot hole, with the infamous "Don't shoot the pod, there are no life forms aboard" line). In A New Hope, she didn't know they were caught red-handed because she had given the plans to R2-D2 and gotten them off the ship already. She only becomes caught red-handed because Darth Vader witnessed her ship leaving the battle. It's just sloppy, in my opinion, and doesn't cleanly connect to the OT as well as it could have. It's fine that you don't agree, of course.

 

The two movies tie together really well. Leia claiming diplomatic immunity is stalling for R2 to get to the escape pod but she also doesn't know the senate is being dismantled so she knows how bad this could look for the empire.
"Holding her is dangerous. Word gets out it could generate sympathy for the rebellion in the senate."

 

It explains why Vader was so sure that they weren't on a diplomatic mission.

 

Our heroes' deaths work because they fit in thematically with the themes of sacrifice and in the war movie style. They don't die epically at the hands of the big bad. They get gunned down unceremoniously on the battlefield with the other soldiers fighting along side them. Jyn says they'll take every chance they get until all chances are spent. Every sacrifice our heroes make (locking the door, connecting the communications, flipping the switch) moves the ball a few more yards further down field so to speak.

 

Same would be accomplished if he tracked the plans to her ship instead, only it would also be more believable AND show how resourceful and tenacious Vader is.

 

I mean the real plot hole here is why they didn't just broadcast the plans to every Rebel ship possible, now I think about it.

 

Most likely the Empire was jamming anything in that area, so when they did escape, the only way to move the plans would be to physically move them.

 

Right, so send them to every ship at the battle and hope one of them makes it back to Yavin.

 

It seemed as if they were going to succeed until Vader's star destroyer showed up and stopped them from evacuating. I do need to see it again, but I think in the heat of the moment, successfully transmitting the plans to a ship outside the planet was a massive success for the Rogue One crew.

 

Yeah I mean I should say that I just didn't LOVE it the way I wanted to. It's still incredibly well-made and had fun parts.

 

Agreed. I know I didn't respond to your points from earlier, but they have gotten me thinking about how much I like the transition. It's fun stuff to think about and argue/discuss, even though at the end of the day we're all massive fans of this universe.

 

SPOILERS: I'm watching A New Hope right now, and one thing I've noticed is how they talk about using the Death Star for the first time, even though they destroyed one or two planets in Rogue One, right? Or am I missing something there?

 

I think they said the first time at full power.

edit: however they do say Alderaan will be the first planet destroyed

edit 2: I guess the single shot they sent was just enough to destroy a city... but it seemed like an end of all life on the planet type event

 

I noticed that too

 

As inessential as I think this movie is, and for all the ways I don't think it worked well as a movie, I did enjoy having the events and characters of the film in mind when I rewatched A New Hope and read the opening scrawl. It doesn't enhance either film, really, and I still have a litany of issues with this one, but it was fun. Like when I used to read average EU novels that weren't all that good but fun enough for being a Star Wars fan.

 

But he clearly tracked the ship after that encounter, rather than the data transfer. He didn't magically find them over Tattooine. Some sort of tracking happened. I'm sure he was tenacious, too.