General Politics Discussion (XI) [ARCHIVED] World • Page 1705

I just don’t understand what “worse” is in this context. I don’t think people can have their cake and eat it too, saying both A) Biden is constrained from doing anything that meaningfully impacts Israel’s behavior (so the fact that he has given them nothing but weapons money and diplomatic aid is immaterial) but also that B) he/Harris somehow stand between Israel and the horrific things they aren’t doing yet but would do under Trump.

Again, if you want to vote for Harris because of a perception of harm reduction at home, just let that be your argument. On rhetoric and in action, Democratic leaders are being as - if not more - bloodthirsty than Republicans on this topic, pledging undying allegiance to Israel with no indication that there’s even a line that could be crossed.

 

Plus, I’m old enough to remember when Democrats talked about Bush/Cheney as the devil worst-ever mass murderers, justifiably so. With every bit of the scorn that they talk about Trump with now. Now it’s “thank you for your service Mr. Vice President” and I don’t think there’s any reason to trust that they aren’t capable of being THE Party for killing brown people in other countries.

 

lol, billions of dollars of humanitarian aid for Gaza that Israel lets into Gaza at a rate of 2 trucks a day. Other than that you think he’ll give them more money and weapons and American soldiers? they’re already getting every bit of that they want.

lol and “calls for a ceasefire.” Biden does not want a ceasefire. Biden would be slobbering falling over himself to push the “create greater Israel and kill everyone currently living there” button

 

Biden's student loan cancellation is put on hold again after day of legal whiplash

I’d like to hear the plan for dealing with the courts

 

Like, did you guys not read the Politico article? Israel going into Lebanon was done not only with the blessing of the Biden admin but following active prodding and goading by McGurk and Hochstein

 

Good lord, nomitive determinism really feels real sometimes. McGurk and Hochstein

 

It's not just the physical settlement builds that cause the escalation, it's the knowledge that the American president is no longer pressuring the Israeli president to stop them/slow them/etc. You don't think that creates a tension in the minds of Hamas or the PA that tends to spur drastic action like October 7th? If you feel like the guardrails are completely down, as Trump seemed to indicate they were, you aren't going to feel like "fuck we have to do something"? Of course you are. And we haven't even mentioned the recognition of Golan Heights...like at every corner, Trump was encouraging the Israeli govt publicly and privately to escalate. I don't see how people can think that doesn't make a difference. Biden's lack of action now =/= it can't get worse, IMO

 

The Biden admin is privately encouraging the Israeli government to escalate! Your only argument is that Trump will say out loud the things Biden believes and acts on.

 

Biden isn’t pressuring them! He said Rafah was a red line! His team pushed for Israel to invade Lebanon!

 

Also, do you really, actually believe that Biden is in any way "pressuring the Israeli president to stop [or] slow [settlements]." Come on now. Like actually.

 

‘Golan Heights is part of northern Israel,’ White House says after Hezbollah attack

JULY 29, 2024 20:00

 

i think trump being worse on Palestine, is actually doing all the things Biden has done, but being louder and more racist about it, which of course is the true sin in the eyes of liberals.

 

I believe US presidents will almost always act in what is in their own best interest/the interest of their party first. It would be in Biden's best interest in Israel stopped expanding settlements.

Soooo...yes?
Biden administration restores U.S. policy calling Israeli settlements 'illegitimate' under international law

 

White House confirms Biden will keep embassy in Jerusalem - Roll Call

February 9, 2021 at 11:51am

 

biden and his team are putting tons of pressure on netanyahu, but in the form of a nice swedish massage.

 

"For decades, U.S. policy on settlements was guided by the 1978 determination known as the “Hansell Memorandum,” which was penned by the State Department’s then-legal adviser Herbert Hansell. Hansell’s finding did not say that settlements were “illegal” but rather “illegitimate.” Nonetheless, that memorandum shaped decades of U.S. policy on the issue."

Returning to decades of policy which saw the US nominally "oppose" "illegitimate" settlements while they massively expanded.

Also, if Biden was acting in his best interest or the interest of the Democratic party he wouldn't be telling Israel to invade Lebanon and sending the strongest non-nuke weapons we make to Israel while they do a genocide. He would probably want to keep Michigan on the table for Kamala.

 

i disagree. they will always do what is in the best interest of US national interest, which of course is the interest of the capitalist class.

 

Personally I believe that Biden is acting mostly in the interests of Israel because he has a psychotic personal attachment to them and loves seeing them murder children. He told as much to Begin. McGurk and Hochstein are doing this though

 

Yyyep...much like Republicans found out with the ACA and repeal, once the genie is out of the bottle, it's a lot harder to put it back in. Playing ping pong with the embassy once it was already moved in accordance with the decades old law to do so, it suddenly becomes much more complicated to move it back (would it actually break the law?? I don't know, genuinely asking if you know), especially with most of congress voting to keep it there.

How many more genies does President Trump let out of the bottle? Not just on Israel/Palestine but anywhere else? Does he have the US official position changed to a one state solution? Does he publicly call for the complete elimination of the West Bank? etc.

 

The only difference in policy for Israel would be purely aesthetic. Republicans can gleefully celebrate the deaths of Palestinians, Democrats feign sadness and anger. The policy of continued prolonged indiscriminate murder will remain of constant between the two.

 

at the end of the day, trump will be worse because orange man bad, drumpf, 45, cheetoh hitler.

 

The us position is effectively a one state solution, as evident by the Biden White House’s funding of Israel’s efforts to ethnically cleanse the region