General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 1280

I don't think so. There's a spot in the middle that felt weird and the ending is little too on-the-nose, but it's still pretty good.

 

Interesting counter narrative.

 

I'm kind of bewildered by this. Yes, they would have covered the margin. But if we eliminate her, then we should probably eliminate Johnson as well. His voters would not have gone for Clinton, and there were way more libertarian votes than greens. This shouldn't even matter because of how many people stayed home this time. That, to me, seems like a far more pressing issue than leveling blame at an unmeasurable effect of what we've both acknowledged was a small contingent of Sanders' supporters. If she gets people to show up at the same level Obama did in 2012, against someone who wasn't an existential threat to democracy, she wins. If she prevents Democrats from crossing the aisle at the rate that they did, she wins.

 

Yep. I learned that in my twenties. They vote. No matter what. It's a reality we have to live in along with the dozens of other things that need to be fixed now. Like the suppression tactics in states that clearly target monitory voting. That has to be changed in 4 years if we want a change.

 

We've brought this up in here already but it's important. Apparently conservatives will vote for whoever the GOP puts up. Liberals will not do the same for the Democratic Party.

 

It all matters. All of it. To ignore that is at our peril.

 

right because that leads to diluted and coopted movements that spawn figureheads like Clinton

 

I mean I get the sentiment but for a lot of us, including myself, confronting those people in our lives is a serious, serious mental health issue that I especially cannot afford to have. I know that's a privileged stance to take but if I have to confront the racism I'm surrounded by every day I'm going to relapse eventually. Guaranteed. It was a big reason why I started using to begin with. Feeling isolated from the people around me and feeling disgusted with people I've been raised by or have known my whole life. I don't know what the answer is

 

look at the religious right in particular, certainly didn't worry about voting their conscious.

 

Yep. There's a massive divide on the left. Much more unity on the right.

 

It doesn't all matter to the same degree though. And again. The Johnson voters would've gone right. There were way more of them than Stein voters

 

Plenty of people who voted for Johnson wouldn't have gone for anyone else, they like Johnson and hate trump so no

 

And they won't. They make a stink. They try and lobby for what they want. They are loud. They threaten. They push their agenda and try and get their candidate and issues pushed.

But at the end they go vote. That quote from yesterday was great: Democrats vote when they're inspired, Republicans vote when there's an election. And it's why dems lose mid terms. And lose governorships and state seats. It's why local changes don't happen and then get reflected on the larger election.

 

Right, and this goes back to what I wanted to say yesterday. There is nothing smug about Kyle Kulinski's tweets. Talking about the DNC learning lessons is, to a degree, pretty important because they were a major part of this. It's nowhere near the same as actually shaming everyone and saying "we deserve this" . Really awkward comparisons have been made. The DNC deserve criticism. They don't deserve to be defended.

 

I definitely get that. That's generally how I feel too—constantly hearing these things takes its toll—but you're right, it is a privilege to be able to simply unfriend and go on with life. Your personal health is obviously most important though, I would never fault anyone for blocking something out that is likely to cause them to relapse or self-harm. As I've said, I'm guilty of it and I'm not at risk for those things, which is why I'm especially conflicted.

 

If the republican nominee wasn't trump they would've voted for them most likely

 

I'm not saying live in a hypothetical with them not existing. I'm saying things could have been done and the candidates honest. Weld at least tried. I know people in states that voted Stein because they thought their state was blue. No matter what. They were wrong.

And I know people that stayed home for Bernie and didn't want this kind of outcome. But thought it was in the bag.

And I know a few Trump voters that didn't think he'd be floating establishment names.

 

Well most republicans are constantly yelled at in their churches to vote for the right winger, I'd say that is some part of it

 

But he was trump so... and still disagree almost every libertarian I know just enjoys their own party and don't vote republican

 

Then why'd they vote for a conservative? Johnson is hardly a true libertarian

 

Doubtful.

 

Nah I definitely know there are some who wouldn't have. Whether that meant they would have voted for Clinton or abstained, though, is another discussion haha

 

You're really generalizing hard, don't ride Jason's coatails into this dumb "Fuck every third party person" thing. For a lot of people it's about the candidate.