General Politics Discussion (XI) [ARCHIVED] World • Page 1370

Fewer than 3% of Americans are Jewish. Of that population, they are not monolithic. Many Jewish groups have regularly sponsored the protests against Israel. You will not lose the election based off of Jewish voters abandoning the Democrats for recognizing Palestinians in a convention, or a ceasefire, or even an embargo. However, you might lose Michigan by excluding them. Nothing you are saying is anywhere near approaching “common sense.”

 

again, turning jews into the bad guys here is incredibly antisemtic. Especially when so many Jewish people are the ones helping lead the fight for peace

keep the attacks on AIPAC but please stop generalizing against Jewish people

also you can't both argue "we need as big of a tent as possible" and then also argue "we need to keep the tent small so we don't piss off certain lobbyist"

 

the word you’re looking for is zionists. zionists support Israel. Be they jews, christians, secular, atheists.

whose goal is to beat trump? The dems right? Okay, that’s not the goal of politics in general

 

I know you've seen AIPAC and now they've been able to unseat people with their sheer amount of money. I'm convinced the Dems are afraid of getting in their bad side if they publicly say anything AIPAC and the like.

Lol wat

 

so should dems also abandon protecting trans kids? after all, there are a bunch of super religious christians who aren't going to accept hearing "kids can know they are trans and should be allowed to play whatever sports or use whatever bathrooms that match their gender identity"

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to generalize ALL Jews, I was merely referring to AIPAC and the like...the ones who are so right wing anti Palestine that they get offended a the drop of a dime. Seeing the recent elections and the power they wield is scary.

 

Fuck christians and their backwards ass transphobic mentality. Thank their God that the religion is slowly dying as people wise up.

 

The LGBT+ block is important for the Dems and among young people in general, abandoning trans kids would have an enormous negative impact there. So both strategically and morally, no.

 

FWIW, far more Zionists in this country are Christian rather than Jewish. Definitely get the frustrations towards AIPAC but I really do hope you take a step back at some point and reflect on why you went with "pissing of the Jews"

 

I’d encourage you to not say “Jewish people support Israel.” A lot of Jewish people are actually very critical of Israel and their actions here, and the US’s support for it. I know it’s not your intention, but treating Jewish people as if they’re monolithic plays into antisemitic tropes.

 

Again, I didn't mean to generalize so I apologize for it coming across that way and I do realize how what I said could be taken that way so thanks for pointing that out.

 

to be clear, are you suggesting that is strategically better for dems to abandon Palestinians, or that it is morally better?

 

How U.S. Jews are experiencing the Israel-Hamas war

I mean, this kind of says otherwise. It's a tad dated but I'm sure probably holds up.

I say that as a Jewish person that doesn't support Israel. Also, there are megadonors who certainly silently back Israel.

 

I think most Jews are Zionists and quite frankly have a ethnofascism problem in their community.

That being said, the US’ special relationship with israel is not motivated by appeasing Jews.

 

Alsooooooo the idea that hardcore zionists who would abandon the Dems if they recognized Palestinians and the genocide are A) Dem voters to begin with and B) a sizable enough voting bloc to throw the election is a huge stretch

 

It's strategically better to beat Donald Trump.

The smartest thing is for Palestine to not be an issue in this election. Also because we fundamentally don't have control of that situation, even if we pull all funding and weapons.

 

It's not voting numbers, it's money.

 

Im confused by your point with this - the article you shared talks about how the views of Jewish people in America are increasingly mixed, specifically by age. A far cry from monolithic.

 

I do find it humorous that the argument is, well the party needs to appease a people who support genocide and apartheid, and well I’m gonna have to vote with them.

 

Israel could not do what they’re doing without weapons and money from the US.

 

I have definitely felt large self aware cognitive dissonance around this issue recently. I want the Democrats to face consequences from their policy towards Gaza and think they're disgusting. I also am terrified of what will happen to trans and undocumented people in this country if Trump gets back in and do believe trump will ramp up what is happening in Gaza, and I feel the draw of being "pragmatic", but I also feel gross that I feel that draw. I will feel bad about myself if I vote for Kamala, I will feel bad about myself if I don't vote at all. I know deep down that electorism isn't the answer, but at all the same time I also feel like that is the only small amount of power I have effect anything.

Just so many conflicting views. This thread has definitely helped me parse through my internal feelings about all this though. I joke about AOC playing both sides, but I honestly feel like that has been me in my head unconsciously.

 

Uh, 74% to 14% is pretty monolithic. Goes way up when you go 50+, which you know are the voters.

 

See as far as I'm concerned, I personally don't think it's smart strategically OR morally. As you said, and I don't think anyone will disagree with you, the more people the better. But I DO think some staffer is busy crunching the numbers and is convinced that coming out in support of a free Palestine would put off certain people. Because it SHOULDN'T be this hard to allow their voices to be heard!

 

We just run such a danger with demanding moral perfection from someone like AOC who is categorically decent and does empathize but then wondering why we end up with someone deranged. It hurts to see decent people trying their best torn down while absolute scum of the earth then takes over.