General Politics Discussion (XI) [ARCHIVED] World • Page 1330

I’m now wondering if polls mean nothing and are unreliable or are polls everything and should dictate policy that could save hundreds of thousands of lives

 

It’s only because it’s Israel now for some reason we can’t embargo them

 

"If it doesn't personally affect me or my emotions I don't care" is probably a resonant thought process of 80% of Americans, and probably people in general tbh.

 

We’ve done it with them before!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Soviet Invasion of Manchuria was basically just a landgrab. Japanese were essentially already defeated at that point, and were just angling for the best peace negotiation position for what they hoped would be a conditional surrender.

If anything you could say it contributed in the same way the western allies invading Normandy contributed in helping the Soviets beat the Nazis, it ate up their manpower and resources, but it wasn't a determining factor in Japanese defeat. They were basically done as an effective military after we took their main access to oil reserves at Leyte in late '44 and our subs annihilated most of their shipping fleet. The firebombings and A-Bombs were to force the unconditional surrender we wanted.

I have heard some historians that believe A-Bombs were actually a desperate push for a Japanese unconditional surrender quickly before the Soviets took more mainland Asian territory. That it was more of a message to the USSR than about beating the Japanese.

 

Yeah but it’s different now because

 

in 20 years of so when there's no financial detriment they'll look back at the protestors as heroes and call their predecessors shameful. then they'll do the same thing again when the bag is threatened

in america, freedom of protest only applies in retrospect, when you can't lose any money anymore

 

The A bombs were the first two big salvos that started the cold war. The Soviet Invasion of Manchuria involved huge ass battles of hundreds of thousands with stiff Japanese resistance that destroyed the remainder of their military capacity on the continent between the first A bomb and the formal surrender. its much more significant than a land grab. i wouldn't call normandy a land grab either.

 

but I can see and understand why a lot of people wouldn’t think that, especially boomer third way Dems who are still a part of the party/in a lot of leadership rolls, and I think shitting all over the people who would be more inclined to agree with you and support your movement and be able to add to the pressure being applied because they liked something AOC or Warnock said last night or whatever is counterproductive at best.

 

I think the protests are generally fine and good but you do wanna try to keep them peaceful. It’s more the just shrugging off/ignoring/downplaying anything else good happening due to the awfulness of the situation. There are going to be people out there excited about what has become a visible shift from the Obama Dems which themselves were a visible shift from 90s Dems on a bunch of policies and that’s a good thing. Coincidentally it also probably helps the cause on Palestine as the folks getting excited by that stuff are probably easier to talk into prioritizing a ceasefire too

 

People are gonna tease you for this, but you're right.

 

I appreciate that people are applying pressure and protesting. And I think it’s helpful to me, even if I’m not engaged to the same degree, to remember that all of the compartmentalized positive has a giant glaring asterisk that needs to be the priority. I gladly give up my own ego/sensitivity to hearing the truth. A lot of us are incredibly privileged and can afford to feel uncomfortable or even embarrassed for a little bit in exchange for keeping our shared attention on making the status quo untenable for people with power. TL:DR; call me/us out at every opportunity. I think it’s valued and helpful.

 

peaceful protestors getting beat by cops paints a much better picture to the masses than aggressive ones

 

I just don’t believe there are a meaningful number of people who are saying “Well, I would say we need to stop giving weapons to Israel for murdering children, but some of the people who also want our government to stop doing that are a little too mean to our government.” There are plenty of people who I disagree on plenty of politics with, but they don’t stop me from engaging with causes I find important.

 

sorry I just cannot get behind a plea for peaceful protests when there is a genocide taking place. baffling shit to me.

 

are you okay? hit your head? it doesn’t matter if they’re peaceful or not they will be painted as violent and antagonistic regardless

 

True. But my whole point is that wasn't the biggest determining factor in Japanese defeat, it might have just hastened the unconditional surrender. The USSR didn't beat the Japanese, the same way you can't really say the US beat the Nazis. Japanese losing their oil, maritime shipping, killing all their experienced pilots, crippling of their surface navy before that was their deathnail, and that was all done by the United States Navy.

 

David, I’m sorry man, I don’t mean to dunk, but in the history of America what have you seen that tells you the “middle of America” people you care about aren’t gonna see a cop whacking a “peaceful protester” with a billy club and not say “meh, shouldn’t have been protesting” or something alike.