The Fantasy/Sci-Fi Books Thread Book • Page 95

No spoilers, full thoughts on Malazan:

I’m not sure where to begin with my thoughts on Malazan, so bear with me if this meanders. After twenty-two books, it’s hard to boil it down to how I feel. Overall, I’m pretty let down after having expectations so high going into it considering it’s regarded by some fantasy circles (and some folks here) as the pinnacle of the genre. Sad to say, it doesn’t even scratch my top ten.

There is so much greatness scattered throughout that there were multiple times I glimpsed why so many people hold it in such regard. The Chain of Dogs, Beak’s Flashback/Battle in Reaper’s Gale, the Deck of Dragons reading to start off book 9, the climax of the Crippled God. These are truly moving/epic moments where everything Erikson was attempting to accomplish absolutely soared.

The world of Malazan (side-note: why do Malazan and Wheel of Time neither have a name for their world? Anyway…) is one of the most expansive attempts at world-building I’ve ever read. Unique races and species abound. Giant ice walls and floating castles and so many other fantastical elements that you can tell were envisioned for a big screen. But one of the biggest problems I have with the series as a whole is that until you reach post-main sequence books, you can’t see any of it with any regularity. I don’t need Tolkien, Jordan, or Sanderson level descriptions of location, people, dress, or society… but we need about 50% more than what Erikson gives us. A constant refrain I texted my friend is “these are just talking heads in an empty vastness. I never know what the characters look like, where they are, what they’re seeing, and with a few exceptions, what in the world around them they’re interacting with.”

I’ve landed on that Erikson is an amazing story ideator, but misses the mark on how to be an excellent story crafter for much of the series. I landed on this because this is also, honestly, how I see my personal writing efforts. I can ideate something much grander than I have the skill to write. However, where Erikson and I differ is that he has a philosophical prowess so immense that the philosophical nature and side of Malazan tend to mask a lot of the simple story telling elements that are sorely missing.

I’ll also add that these elements that I think are missing from the main sequence, actually begin to appear in his Kharkanas and Witness trilogies. He is becoming a much better writer and well-rounded creator as he goes. I’m actually excited for the next entries in these trilogies.

An aside for the ICE novels: Ian doesn’t write with the scope/ideas/philosophies of Erikson, but he crafts better stories for conveying information. Paths to Ascendancy, for my buck, is the best the series has to offer when it comes to balancing plot, character, craft, and world. It also teaches you about the world without holding your hand, something that Erikson thinks he’s doing for large portions of the time, but actually is failing to do. Which is why I think telling new readers to start there before diving into Gardens of the Moon can only help the series as a whole.

It’s weird, because twenty-two books in… I don’t have a favorite character. (Maybe Dancer in Paths.) I haven’t spent enough time with any of them (whether through lack of page time or, uh, abrupt death). The ones I found most interesting were more often than not killed or just forgotten for books at a time. Character is key for me in a lot of stories and I never really got what I needed here.

My main critique, I think, is that Erikson writes scope for the sake of scope, not the sake of story. You could cut 60% of the main sequence books and still have the same overarching story. Wheel of Time and A Song of Ice and Fire meander into these weeds, but also pull themselves back in through much more intricate description and world-building that lets you connect the dots. All these books later and there are still plotlines where I’m like, “Oh, so that was just completely unnecessary to include or to resolve?”

And I know a big defense of the series is that “you have to work to read it.” I’ve got a degree in literature and took quite a few theory and philosophy courses. I’m primed for a series that makes you work a bit. I’m at well over 200 fantasy and sci-fi books read now. There’s a difference between being difficult and trusting the author to deliver down the road, and being willfully withholding and being told “you just don’t get it” by readers when you point out the difference. At some point, the rules of the world have to make sense even in a fantasy, and here they never did for me. Distances, time, races… it’s all general concept, not concrete vision for me.

And yet… I liked it more than I didn’t. Like I said, there are some truly moving moments and there were characters I found myself growing attachment to (before they died, lol). I clearly rolled through them in a little over half a year. I sometimes wondered while reading what it would be like to read stories set in this world with a more competent (imo) crafter… and then ICE dropped Paths of Ascendancy and I loved them. I’ve even pre-ordere the 4th in the latest 85% Audible sale which led to me purchasing all 22 in the first place. Had I not owned them all, I never would’ve made it past Memories of Ice, tbh.

Also, wtf is book 9 after the deck of dragons reading. You can cut that entire shit ass novel. This is my only truly dramatic take.

One thing I find very interesting is that Erikson HATES being compared to Tolkien, and yet the end of book 10 is grounded very much in a similar worldview to how Tolkien crafted eucatastrophe and definitely stands on that imbedded ideology found in fantasy ever since.

I’m so happy for people who adore this series, and a little sad that I’m just not gonna get there.

 

Finally starting the War Arts books by Wesley Chu!

 

Ok so some thought on Dungeon Crawler Carl. The most surprising thing I will say from the start is that I was assuming that we would get through the 18 layer dungeon in the book, especially since it seemed like the the series could really go anywhere and do anything after that if they wanted, I mean you bring aliens into the mix and we're just scratching the surface with them. It became pretty clear early on that would not be the case, so I was beginning to think that the whole book would be one level, which I was also down for (the main recurrent theme you'll find with my reading of this is that I was always down for anything, and he always delivered.) Very interesting to stop us right before Level 3 since we've got so many big changes coming
This might have been one of the best opening to a series when it comes to laying down little bits of a clues to keep you guessing from the beginning. Things like the Borant corporation, Princess's Crown (The 9th layer I think it was where that's going to come into play), Moredcai's story...There's just so much to chew on and so much that makes me want to dive back in immediately. I'm going to be finishing the final Runelords book then I believe this will be my next series.

Certain things were really elevated by me having recently played Baldurs Gate 3. Like when Magic Missile came into play, I was like oh shit, I know exactly how fucking powerful that shit it.

So the best part about this whole thing is that I do not believe I would have picked this book out on my own, so I really have @Garrett to thank for that, and it shows how awesome a gift exchange can be when you find something you wouldn't have known about otherwise. I think my grim/dark ass would have written it off as silly, and seeing a comedy stamp anywhere would be an automatic turn off. But a good story is a good fucking story. It's silly at times, yeah, silly as all hell, it's also got tremendous heart, some very pitch black humor, and I'd also say that it satisfies as a really dark (and violent) story. They really never let you forget about about body count.

The boss fights were all excellent. I loved the way they were presented.

And yeah, Princess Donut. I don't know what to say about her. Like what's better than perfect? What's better than the literary character of a generation? If anything happens to her....

 

I too have been curious about this and turned off because of the comedy label. You'll have to let us know how it is. I know it's long as fuck, and I'd love another long series to dive into.

 

What I have found out is everyone says not to read the books in order. Different books follow different characters. There’s a sub series for Death, the city watch, the witches, the unseen university, the gods, and Industrial Revolution. I haven’t had much time to read lately, but I like what I read so far
Reading Order - Discworld Emporium

 

I am so excited for you to dive into the deeper levels of the story. I’m glad this hit! I thought you would like it.

 

@Vivatoto @xapplexpiex good heavens if you guys haven't read Discworld you are seriously missing out.

Terry Pratchett was a once-in-a-generation genius at satire, parody, and pastiche. The books are tremendously good.

I wouldn't even really call them comedies, exactly. Think "biting wit and searing homage" instead of a collection of one-liners or something.

(And Guards! Guards! is indeed a good place to start, I think.)

 

Well, huh, ok sold. Guess I have a goal.

 

Terry Pratchett’s Discworld Might Be The Highest Form of Literature on the Planet

Give this a read too, haha, if you need further endorsement by way of Sanderson.

For real, Pratchett is excellent reading, and if I'd realized you hadn't read him, I'd have recommended him years ago. It's always possible you might bounce off Discworld, of course, but I genuinely think you'll have a good time.

 

ugh I've stayed away from Discworld because of the daunting nature of it. But you know, reading one as a palate cleanser between heavier things doesn't seem like a bad idea

 

Man, the characters in Fourth Wing are cookie cutter ass

 

read discworld, people.

the great 2024 chorus discworld readalong

 

don't worry, it only gets worse lol

 

I haven't seen plot points this telegraphed since Twilight

 

Well fuck, Runelords went down the worst possible way it could. I was really hoping that he would close off the Scions of Earth story the same way he did the Earth King. But no. This book was Dance of Dragons....98% of the cast missing and instead of moving the story chronologically forward it caught us up on what other characters were doing while the last two books ended. And they didn't even catch up by the end. Which in theory I'm not against, like in Dance of Dragons, but not on the final book. (which DoD might be too lol)

So a totally incomplete story, my fear when starting it. I'll have some more positive thoughts later after processing this disappointment, but yeah, for the moment this really sucks.

 

I might even re-read some of my discworld favorites because of this thread (I'm a huge sucker for those featuring a certain character); the praise is justified.

 

finished Hunger of the Gods today, the sequel to the book I got in last year's exchange, Shadow of the Gods. Honestly, I've never been super into Norse/Viking stuff, so I wasn't sure how much I'd like this series. The first one was decent and got really good towards the end. The second was even better.

One thing I like about them is that there's like, no pontificating or philosophical passages or anything like that. It's just tons of action and so much violence. While I like a good balance, it was kind of refreshing to turn my brain off and just read about warbands and vikings killing each other. Very much looking forward to the next one.

Onto Baru Cormorant!

 

Those two Bloodsworn books are excellent. I hope John Gwynne is able to get to a place where he can write, both because I'm sure it's important to him and because (selfishly) I really want that third installment.

 

Absolutely love those books!

 

Two chapters into Baru Cormorant, can already tell this is extremely my shit

 

Visiting family has done wonders for my reading lol.

ripped through a short horror novella and then 400 pages to finish Theft of Swords, which I really enjoyed.

 

Nice, I really want to read Theft

 

I really enjoyed it and plan to continue the series.

add to my finished list: read a Richard Kadrey novella today I got for Christmas lmao

 

Just finished The Winnowing Flame trilogy by Jen Williams this morning and it is hands down one of my absolute favorite fantasy series that I have ever read. The story ultimately mixes in some science fiction & some horror in a very surprising and refreshing way that I definitely wasn't expecting when I started the first book, and I can't remember getting this emotionally attached to the characters in a book in a long time. I had no complaints about the writing, the world-building, the action, or anything else, but for me this story was all about the characters. The ending of the third book broke my heart while also being completely and utterly satisfying. I cannot possibly recommend this series enough.

(This trilogy even manages to overcome my nonsensical pet peeve against not having a map in a fantasy book that constantly mentions names of places and cities and stuff.)

 

I returned to the Barnes and Noble sale and have The Blade Itself, The Jasmine Throne, and Kagen the Damned in my cart. Anyone want to talk me out of them or affirm my choices? I'll be in line for over an hour lol