The Fantasy/Sci-Fi Books Thread Book • Page 68

Finished Mark Lawrence's The Book that Wouldn't Burn. Largely enjoyable but a tad repetitive. The story was fascinating and really shook up towards the end of it. Quite a great way to tell a story and not at all what I imagined it would be.

 

Any Malazan fans here? On House of Chains right now. Wish I understood more of what was going on lol.

 

I started Gardens of the Moon (for a second time) earlier this week. I truly don’t understand how this book got published with how poorly it’s written. I know the second has a huge jump in quality, but wow.

Attempting all 21 this year.

 

I don't think it's necessarily written bady for me, it's just very different from most fantasy books. Nothing is explained and you have to figure out things on your own which is super jarring. I wish there was a bit more on the why the hell is any of this happening side of things.

 

If I recall, the whole first 4th of that book is a direct response to criticisms that Erikson couldn't write a sole compelling POV without relying on a million other characters. The result is Karsa Orlong, who is definitely in the top 5 for most badass characters in the whole series. But yeah, he does the whole thing where he introduces you to a whole new cast or characters/settings after spending an entire previous book with a completely different cast/setting. It happens like every other book until I think book 5, then you'll be all set up for everything to eventually collide.

took me 3 tries lol. Such a wild and weird book that is nothing but endearing to me now lol

 

Yeah Erikson is the king of dropping you in the deep end without a map and just being like "figure this out" lol

Also for the millionth time, I'll plug the reread site, which helped me immensely:

Malazan Reread of the Fallen – Tor.com

 

Not trying to come across all haughty or anything, but I genuinely don't understand what people mean when they talk about GOTM being hard to understand. I'm not criticizing anyone—but I read it without knowing much except "super cool fantasy book" and thought it was great and bought the sequel, and only then did I read online discourse about how hard it is to understand and how he throws you in the deep end and you have to muddle through for a while until you figure things out. I didn't have that experience at all; it seemed like a pretty typical fantasy novel to me with regards to exposition and worldbuilding pace.

So I'm either really smart or really dumb? lol.

But boy one of these days I'll continue the series. They mock me from my shelf. Even my wife has read more Malazan than I have.

 

How do warrens work? Using only information from GOTM?

 

@OwainGlyndwr just out here casually flexing that he's got the best brain on the planet.

To me, Gardens of the Moon isn't just a "throw us in the deep end without a map" thing, but there's something missing. Especially in the first ~200 pages or so. You can have connective tissue without holding hands. It feels like people talking on an blank screen at times?

 

You open a portal and let magic come through. You can also travel using warrens. There are different paths categorizing the warrens. And I think there's an interplay between calling the warren to you/summoning the warren/being strong enough to hold the warren open. The description in GOTM always reminded me of some conceptions of the Celtic Otherworld—in some tales it's depicted as an actual realm parallel to ours, hence the warren travel; but in others the Otherworld was accessed via isolated mounds that are part of the Otherworld but not connected to any larger geography, like little pockets of magic, which reminded me of summoning power via a warren.

Two caveats:
1. I read GOTM fully 8 years ago, so I'm based the above description on old memories alone.
2. I think there's a fundamental difference between understanding the mechanics of something and not being confused by the depictions of something. I'm fully willing to admit I may not understand the mechanics of warrens as presented in GOTM, but I never felt confused by how they were depicted. Consequently: I don't think GOTM fully explains all the intricacies and details of the world, but I was never confused in my reading, nor did I feel lost, because I found the story and the world presented to be coherent and easily imagined.

 

Lol. Yeah that's fair, I get what you're saying, I just didn't feel that way about the book. I've definitely read books like that before, so I know the experience. But GOTM just felt pretty similar to other fantasy novels and didn't have that effect on me. I'm clearly a minority in that though.

And hey, I didn't like Howl's Moving Castle, I liked The Sword of Truth series, and I've read all of the Shannara books and really enjoyed them, so maybe my opinions aren't worth listening to haha.

 

I'd say they are pretty hard workers. But my knowledge is derived exclusively from my observations of Elizabeth Warren and Warren Sapp.

 

I never actually read the Malazan books, but I almost responded to this post about what's a rec that is light & breezy -->

with "Malazan Book of the Fallen", but I didn't want to tick off any fans with my joke.

I've started Gardens of the Moon a few times but I never kept going. I do remember being *extremely* lost and confused as to what was happening, and not enjoying myself at all so I just did not keep reading. I have always wanted to go back and try the series again, but I know I probably need to be in a decent / relaxed headspace to do it, and alas that is just not my life right now.

 

I got halfway through Gardens of the moon and gave up. I was really into it, but every time I stopped, I realized I wasn't remembering much and I did the TOR reread along with it (the spoiler free one) and even when I thought I was getting it I wasn't. I'll have to go back to it.

 

Malazan is the single best series of any genre. All other fantasy falls short. It does take some time, but I promise if you keep pushing forward it's rewarding. There is nothing wrong with being confused, you will pick it up as you go along, especially if you read the ICE books.

Everyone gets a little lost, but I've never seen anyone that finished the series say they didn't find their way eventually.

 

@OwainGlyndwr So I finally got back into Runelords. Book 2 was incredible, I adored it. I thought maybe for the first half it wasn't going to be as compelling as the first, mainly because Raj Ahten wasn't around that much and he's probably my favorite fantasy character since Anomander Rake (speaking of Malazan). But once he enters...holy fuck. The final 200 pages or so were pure joy. Again I am just blown away with how good David Farland was at everything. Like that's the least descriptive way I could describe his writing, but it's true, I'm just constantly thinking, fuck, this is all really good.

 

Runelords is on my "post-Malazan" list. The first 8 books were free on Audible at one point.

 

If it makes you feel better I had this question until like book 5. You learn wayyyyy more about them eventually. Owain's summary was on point but honestly I really don't think you're expected to understand warrens at this point. But I get asking the question, because I asked it plenty.

 

Lol, oh man, I can't wait until you find out what the warrens actually are.

 

Wow! Great explanation. Ya I think you're definitely a smart reader because I got none of that just from GOTM.

 

So happy you're enjoying them so much. I absolutely agree, Dave was a master of the genre, and it's a shame that he's not a household name among fantasy fans.

 

Yeah I have no idea how that happened. I think that's how he can continue to surprise me so much, I feel like he shouldn't be this good without people reccing him left and right.

There's also this strange dichotomy I've noticed, his stories have a Wheel of Time or Tolkien or Shannarra or Sanderson lightness, it's still the end of the world and all hands on fuckin deck, but those stories are much more hopeful than the "grimdark" genre. But he's also about 20 times more violent than those stories, almost like an Abercrombie or Glen Cook. And shit gets dark, and good people do awful things. So he's both grimdark and not, which safe to say really works for me.

 

What is an ICE book?

 

Ian C. Esslemont. The other Malazan writer.

 

Ian C Esslemont. He created the world with Erickson and has his own series of books. in my opinion it is necessary reading, as a lot of characters that start in Ericksons stories have their arcs end in Esslemonts. Plus they're great and that's how you get to see the whole world, including the Assail which is the best. And there are a lot of reveals in there as well.