Invasion of Ukraine • Page 79

I thought Russia was out of missiles, economically crippled, militarily devastated, how are they going to keep invading??? And no, I'm not advocating for capitulation, I'm saying that refusing to consider conceding territory as part of a negotiated peace is a pro-war position. Perhaps you're right that that would be serving Russia's goals, but the continuation of the war and Zelenskyy's vision for post-war Ukraine as Eastern European Israel that can be a new arms market for the US serves Amerikkkan interests as much or more, so what now?

 

I'd say Russian interests in this specific conflict are actually worse for the people in the area than American interests are. And that's a very rare thing!

I think if I'm Ukraine, I'm definitely not ceding any new territory beyond 2014 borders to Russia, because that's literally an invitation to invade again and take more in the future, which uhhh I would say is a pro-war position. Beyond that is where it gets tricky. Considering Russia was the agressor in this invasion and also basically did the "uprising" in 2014 just secretly, and if I'm Ukraine and I'm winning this war, then I want that territory back officially in my country as a buffer against any potential future Russian aggression. Crimea is much trickier and, I'm cautious by nature, so if I were president of Ukraine I'm probably not in favor of pushing militarily into Crimea, but I am probably insisting that management of that territory be part of the negotiations for peace, whether it's a shared territory under Russian control, our control, or international control, etc.

 

RUSSIA did Euromaidan?????? wow this is new info lol

 

(US openly chooses the Prime Minister of a country after backing a domestic political movement there) how could Russia do this

 

But, no, I reject the premise that ending a war with concessions is pro-war. Wanting to continue the war, which by the way is in itself a concession to American interests, is pro-war.

 

Russia definitely did Donetsk and Luhansk, and you know what I meant. You could try doing this convo without being a smartass lol

 

Didn't you say the guy the US chose lost the election? haha

 

If it makes you feel better everyone who knows me in any context including real life also thinks I'm a smartass. But, I think the uprisings in Luhansk and Donetsk were initially legitimate and driven by grievances of ethnic Russians/Russian speakers (not necessarily pro-Putin) in response to the ouster of a leader more sympathetic to them. Initially the movement included socialists before it was eventually co-opted by Russia, kind of similar to the Amerikkkan co-option of Maidan.

It's kind of illustrative in terms of power dynamics that we have two meddling actions in Ukraine in the same year, both end up dramatically shifting the status quo in the country, one being a successful play at ensuring a friendly government and the other being a failed one resulting in an insurgency. When the US supports failed insurgencies, it looks like Syria.

 

SIde bar: If we're calling America AmeriKKKa in the context of this thread, can we also call Russia RuSSia?

 

The Ukrainian guy in the politics was doing Ruzzia which seems better for that purpose

 

the US foreign policy is the continuation of western imperialism that has impoverished the global south at the benefit of of the North Atlantic and other junior partners. you can't say that about Russia.

i've always hated the ''well if they had the chance" argument. it's just a bad argument.

 

i think it's only fair if we say AmeriKKKA and RuZZia, we have to say UKKKraine. It's only fair.

 

Nah, way less of them there than in either of the other two countries, probably even as a percentage of the population haha

 

so then it is fair.

 

Nah because every country in the western world has nazis, and ones that would fight in their army, but in this conflict only one country is trying to ethnically cleanse an area of the world and talking openly about destroying an entire ethnicity of people and wiping out their identity and etc haha

 

there are people on two belligerent parties who want that and one that is a white supremacist state.

 

for the record i don't think the donbass referendra is valid because i don't think you truly can hold a vote under these conditions.

 

House progressives weigh retraction of Russia-diplomacy letter amid Dem firestorm

lmao

 

SOmeone screwed up here on the timing of this. Not sure if it was CPC leaders or their aides, but something seems off here to have this released now.

 

The fact that they are considering retracting this letter - which was actually pretty mild and just barely hinted at maybe possibly exploring the idea of thinking about considering diplomacy - is fucking pathetic. Bunch of clowns.

 

it's because america wants the war to continue, both sides of the political aisle

 

AOC did get called out publicly the other day for supporting the war. Maybe this was done in haste to address that.

In any case, I'm expecting an updated letter if their intentions are in fact to advocate for peace.

 

I agree that there are definitely people on both sides of the aisle that genuinely want the war to continue, but I do think there are increasing voices on both sides that want the US to encourage, if not straight out push for or demand in some cases, Ukraine to consider coming to the table for negotiations / peace talks. I think we saw in real time what is happening to these voices on the left yesterday, but I think after the midterms we are going to see things start to shift on this.

 

I do think the communication is good, but I think better would have been for both sides to postpone their nuclear exercises / drills until the tensions are lower.