Invasion of Ukraine • Page 77

comparing what america has done world wide to russia allegedly tampering with a us election just seems so tonedeaf.

 

Come to think about it Israel and Saudi Arabia have more of an influence on American elections than what Russia did.

 

Taiwan too!

 

ehh, can't say i agree. don't think the tail wags the dog that much in that relationship.

 

Nope! Making excuses for behavior you don't like from your own country, being done by another country, is bad! Doing so when it's being done to your own country, because you don't like what your own country does, is bad! It's actively working to make it easier for fascists to get elected here. It's bad!

 

I can rephrase a bit if it helps.
Russia is backed into a corner in the sense that they consider defeat in invading Ukraine unacceptable. They could choose to withdraw.
However since Putin controls Russia, and he would never live it down, Russia is now a pariah to the West, and to others possibly.

A change in Russian leadership and some additional accountability for the horrors in Ukraine is the right solution.
Since that won't happen, as things stand, the West will have to strike a balance between beating Russia back and blacklisting them and making concessions that allow Putin to save face domestically. That's how I see it.

Edit: tl;dr Ukraine doesn't have a dirty bomb, c'mon

 

SPeaking of...

I think we can all agree that...this is bad! Unacceptable behavior! Especially from a country we give lots of money and arms for in exchange for what is supposed to be a productive relationship for us. Bad!

 

They do have an impressive lobby presence when it comes to influencing our foreign policy.

https://mronline.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/3ba8a1_b42f98810cf54d5ba207b098c1dcdaef.pdf

 

Okay it's bad. What now. You've said you're not interested in questioning or examining the historical and geopolitical forces that create the conditions in which "bad" things, geopolitical conflict, happens. So what even follows from this conclusion? What can you draw from them in terms of understanding the world and preventing "bad" things from happening? Nothing! This is an understanding of the world that has no explanatory power when applied to world politics holistically and through history.

 

Well now that we've admitted it's bad, we can stop brushing it off when it's brought up as not a big deal because "America does it too", and now we can observe what Russia is doing through that lens!

 

man i wish they had the same behavior.

 

man i wish american does it too.

i wish i can observe what russia does through the same lens.

 

Doesn't change my perspective at all, the scale and scope of American "bad things" is greater, plus I am an American

 

i do think Russia like every other country has its own geopolitical motivations just like the US. but theyre different.

 

Me too....because you seem to have an easy time calling America's interventions in other nations for what they are, but a much harder time doing so with a fascist Russian government....and I really don't get why, because it's not like it's a leftist nation/government that deserves your benefit of the doubt lol. They're a more right wing wannabe United States at this point. I don't think we should be hand waving away the actions of nations trying to emulate our terrible foreign policy aha

 

cause they're not the same in magnitude or quality.

 

Russia, a country in the cross hairs of US foreign policy, meddled in an election in favor of trump, a guy who was going to get elected anways and had a hostile foreign policy against Russia anyway.

 

Strange how people understand the concept of "power dynamics" in interpersonal relationships and even domestic politics but are uninterested in that concept in the context of global politics

 

in the words of legendary foreign policy analyst, Nayvadius DeMun Wilburn, "They gang, we gang... but they are not the same."

 

This is something I never understood. What exactly did Trump do for Russia when he was president? From what I can see we kept up sanctions and still armed Ukraine.

 

i see. i just thought they were just forced buyers of human the human piloted kamikaze drones known as the F-35.

 

"i'm not sure why Russia - Europe energy trade is dead, but Europe needs energy and bad."

Well the reason it's dead is that Europe no longer see Russia as a stable and trustworthy energy trading partner, so going forward they're going to accelerate the diversification of energy sources. There's plenty of gas producers around the world that would love to get long-term contracts in place with Europe, at very good prices. New pipelines will be built, and once these are built, and used in those long-term contracts, most, if not all, pipelines with Russia are dead. Additionally, this crisis will only spur Europe to accelerate their transition to renewable energy, which will dis-incentivize any return to Russia energy even more. The only way I could see Europe going back to Russian gas, is a complete change in Russian leadership, once that was completely detached from the Putin regime, and showed openness to engage with the West and admit fault for all their current crimes in Ukraine. Even then, there's almost no hope for recovery. They could obviously divert all their attention to China instead, but building out pipelines to replace all European gas would take years upon years upon years, and China would be in a much stronger position than Russia to set terms for any long-term contracts, ensuring Russia would get nowhere the value out of their gas they used to get. Simply put, it's going to be decades before Russia reaches the heights of their energy power they had before February 24th

 

This offers good insight into how reasonable it is to expect Europe to wean itself off all Russia gas

https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.6.2.20221018a/full/

 

Perhaps I am being proven wrong, god willing

 

i mean, i think Russia is not a suitable partner cause the US says so. i think there is something so necessary like gas and especially with things like gas and other resources people are willing to see past certain things especially involving ethics.

curious, where would the new pipelines be connected to and how long would that take tho? the same years it would take for Russia to build better connections with China?