General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 421

Because there are way more of them than you. And they're voting for Johnson or relunctantly voting for Trump.

 

Yeah, no shit. But somehow it's still on me? In my solid blue state? That doesn't follow

 

No. she should not. But that doesn't mean you can ignore the mathematics of the situation. You can be mad about it. But it's still math. It's still true.

 

Not what I said.

 

so the argument is that leftists are not significant enough of a population to pander to but also we are large enough that we NEED to vote for hillary or else the fascist wins

 

You said voting third party and/or criticizing Clinton guarantees trump wins

 

Yeah. About a 5pt difference with or without most places. Third parties pull 3-5 points from her, with Johnson being by far the benificiary.

 

Yes that's what a spoiler vote literally means.

 

I didn't say the second at all.

 

interesting. ive seen some pundits being weary of johnson being a right wing spoiler by pulling votes away from trump but i havent seen all the math to know if that's actually the case or if its really hurting hillary.

 

I said the first or the second in my post and you quoted it and said "the math disagrees" without specifying which is why I said and/or.

 

One can criticize her and still vote for her, not saying that's right or wrong

 

ok yes jason i am aware but you also know that it is kind of absurd to expect leftists to respond positively to a candidate actively courting the votes of people diametrically opposed to their views right

 

Ah. Ok. I read your response differently, but can see that now.

 

The polls show her lead decreasing and Johnson's going up pretty big when he's included in the polls.

My guess is because of Bernie Bros who have no fucking clue what Bernie actually stood for vs. what Johnson would do, or just don't care.

 

The Johnson support actually hurts Clinton more. Stein could, potentially, have an effect in Florida, but in almost every other place it's Johnson's inclusion that will probably hurt her most. They break toward him from Clinton in a 3-way more than they break from Trump. By 3-4pts in some states. That'll matter if it keeps tightening.

 

I do mean in this election,though not necessarily as it relates to third party organizing, but afterward as well. Obviously, I don't support Clinton, but if we think Trump is going to lose, then support shouldn't be conditional and we should be working to fight battles that are ahead of us from within the Democratic Party and without, e.g., single payer, police accountability, anti-war policies and so on.

 

She's paid lip service to the center right but so far the policies she's proposing are much further left than what the people in this thread were warning us were coming for the most part.

 

huh. youd think hed be pulling in more from the right. but i have seen some people on facebook around my age advocating for him just because hes a "different perspective" or whatever. ugh.

 

Yes. I've spent my entire adult being very aware of this. It fucking sucks.

 

For sure, and doing so wouldn't be wrong. I just don't understand what the point would be, from my perspective a vote for her would just be condoning her actions, and that's not something I intend on doing.

 

thats interesting. im trying to wrap my head around this because logic tells me someone like johnson should be pulling votes away from the republican party. but, nothing about this election is logical.

 

I agree with that. I also think that a Trump victory will set all of that back in potentially catastrophic ways.

 

then we agree!!

i also think, fwiw, the states with the highest concentration of leftist voters, especially those that would vote third party for stein or abstain, are the most solidly blue states. the northeast corridor chief among them.

 

I'm so fucking tired of the liberal idea of voting for the status quo to end the status quo.