Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 384

It doesn't make any sense. He wasn't grumpy in Return of the Jedi. I mean, people and characters don't just CHANGE over the course of 30 years like that. Grumpy Luke = debunked.

 

I can see both sides of the argument.

Luke definitely would have changed over 30 years, but jumping straight to 30 years without showing this change take place will rightfully throw people off. There was no sign that he was going to be grumpy Luke, so it caught many people off guard.

If there was something showing his change take place then I’m sure more of the people critical of it would have been more chill.

 

I mean pointlessly fighting one empire just for another one to take over, hand cut off, dad a dick, mom dead ... the fuck else do they want. of course the man is grumpy.

sorry I just spoiled a bunch of the OG trilogy lol

 

Haha. I guess that's true. I was just always baffled at the criticism of "Luke wouldn't do that!" I understand that it was jarring for a lot of people though. Having seen the Jedi's downfall in the prequels since the last time we saw Luke in a movie made me think that people would understand his jaded attitude. I did not anticipate so many people saying "THEY RUINED HIM".....but I guess this is Star Wars, after all.

 

the Yoda scene is the greatest single sequence to come out of the Disney era and one of the greatest Star Wars-related things ever made

 

To be fair 4 out of the 5 things you listed happened in the OT and we know Luke was still not a grumpy coward that would attempt to kill his nephew while he’s sleeping for at least 5 years after the ROTJ (as seen in the Mandalorian so far).

 

Easily the best scene in the sequel trilogy. (Not accounting for my Yoda is a top 3 Star Wars character bias)

 

I would argue “attempt” is not the correct word. Though that does assume that you view the truth of the event is indeed Luke’s version when he tells Rey the second time. If you believe Ben, then “attempt” does fit. Personally, I believe Luke. The word I would choose is “considered” killing him. As Luke said it was a moment of instinct. Stopping evil, preventing the death of many including those he loved. Would anyone not consider stopping that even for a moment? We don’t know exactly what Luke saw, but we do see the evil that Kylo does. But Luke then decides not to do it. I don’t really see anything that would make Luke a coward in that moment. Running away after that though, okay, you could call that cowardly.

 

Nah, the morons would still be mad because Luke wasn’t a badass the way they wanted him to be.

They are too dumb to understand that Luke goes out as an incredible badass. He gives his life doing a powerful force action that tricks Kylo, saves the resistance and more importantly to him, Leia, and gives the Galaxy one final legend of Luke Skywalker to inspire hope in the Galaxy all while not hurting anyone. All of which fits the way of a true Jedi. It is a lesson that Luke failed in Empire when he left Dagobah to go to Bespin. Here he trusts in the force and accomplishes his goal without doing one physical act. That’s pretty badass to me.

 

I just want to add that I waited two years to find out Luke's response to Rey with the lightsaber, and finding his response to be to throw it over his shoulder, off a cliff, and walk away without a word to be the absolute best possible option. Perfect.

 

Rian Johnson understands Star Wars better than pretty much anyone else out there tbh and the proof is The Last Jedi

 

Yeah, instead of attempt I’ll say contemplated. It still annoyed me that A) Luke was once a character that did anything he could to save his father and not kill him, knowing that his father killed potentially millions, destroyed planets and almost ended the Jedi, while also understanding that murder is not the Jedi way and leads to the dark side. Then later on, B) Luke senses that Snoke is corrupting Ben so he contemplates killing his own nephew to the point that he ignited his lightsaber.

The narrative character development from point A to B just takes so many leaps without providing enough context or explanation that it feels unnatural and forced to me. Props for Johnson on trying to add more depth to Luke, but to this day I still feel like he didn’t provide enough story for such a drastic change. (One could argue it would have been more explained in episode IX had Lucasfilm not taken 2 steps back but we’ll never know)

 

False. Dave Filoni understands it better than Rian and proved it with The Clone Wars, Rebels and his work on Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett.

 

Yeah I disagree with this a lot, which I've said on this site before. I don't like what he did with Mandalorian season 2 and I also don't like what he's currently doing with Book of Boba Fett. Filoni loves the member berries way too much.

 

Understanding Star Wars is to understand that there are other references/ideas/concepts etc to pull from besides... Star Wars

 

It's also not just about coming up with references and Easter eggs for people to just nod along in recognition with and move on. Filoni is so obsessed with fan service that he let it get in the way of the story being told in both of those live action shows.

Johnson understands the themes and message of the original films way more than anyone else who has worked on this franchise since ROTJ (and that includes George Lucas himself). The Last Jedi made me feel something. Like goddamn that Yoda scene, Luke's arc, Rey being nobody, that final image of the kid with the broom, it's all so so so brilliant and everything Star Wars needed to be. He just totally gets it.

 

"What did you think was going to happen? That I was going to face down the entire First Order with a laser sword?"

Uh yes Luke that's exactly what the angry nerds wanted

 

And also, like, then he did do exactly that! Just because he wasn't physically there doesn't mean that's not what he did.

The bad faith criticisms are so frustrating.

 

I could care less if someone doesn't like this movie but it boggles my mind the amount of people that point to one of a million grifter youtube videos as "objective proof that proves once and for all" that TLJ is terrible.

Anyone that does that doesn't like movies as an art form

 

Right like it's weird they simply can't just say "I didn't like it". It has to be objectively proven to be the worst movie ever made. Like, it sucks you didn't like a movie, big deal, get over it.

 

Isn't that what people do here with TROS, like, every day? Even in threads about movies they do like, like this one?

 

I love that you guys are still going on about this movie 5 years later.

 

I've never seen anyone on here approach disliking TROS for bad faith reasons personally but I could be wrong. I don't read every post ever written.

 

There are posters who in like, every Star Wars discussion, never fail to bring that movie up and tell everyone what a giant piece of shit is and how it ruined their life and undid everything that ever came before it and you're an idiot if you like it and blah blah blah.

It's exhausting. And I didn't particularly like either TLJ or ROTS. But I just ... moved on because they're movies.

 

Yeah, again, never seen anyone call anyone else an idiot for liking it but I can't speak for everyone on here. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I just have never seen anyone dislike TROS for bad faith reasons the same way the anti-TLJ crowd does.