Accountability in Music • Page 618

if you’re in a touring band I would say you should probably look into any bands you bring out or any bands you open for, and if you go out of your way to look into a new band you just discovered before going further that’s great and you should do that too. personally, I don’t like google “band name allegations” every time I discover a new band, but I always go on their Wikipedia, look up their Twitter, check their threads on this website and get a feel for the general consensus on them as I learn more about them, which I enjoy doing anyway when it’s a band I just discovered, and in the natural course of doing that if there’s anything problematic about them it generally comes up

 

I do look up bands I discover to see what they're all about. Especially cause I am usually late and the last person to become a fan. Dont wanna get too emotionally invested and contribute to them financially if they're losers. Prime example was Moose Blood. Looked them up after having a song come up on a Spotify playlist and noped right outta there

 

i love that nicki's cousin obviously just caught an std but she's claiming it's from the vaccine lol

 

Again I’m left wondering the point of posting something like that? Does anyone on this website care enough about g eazy to make that worthwhile outside of a pile on to say how bad he is? Is it worth posting what is essentially tabloid fodder because a rapper no one on this website actually likes probably got into a fight? What accountability could there possibly be?

 

Good point, I'll remove it.

 

Oof. Did not know this.

 

Yeahhhhhhhh that's not great.

 

Let's not punish women for the actions of shitty abusive men. Maybe they need to do more to look into the bands they tour with, but it's hard to blame them for accepting tours with bigger bands especially when those bands continue to tour seemingly without much consternation.

It's not Doll Skin's fault the music scene they're part of is full of assholes.

 

With a lot of information regarding smaller bands being confined to social media posts that are not easy to discover, I understand how Doll Skin has ended up on tour with problematic bands. I absolutely do agree that the blame should not so much fall on them as it should on the problematic men they are touring with. It just sucks that they have ended up in now three situations where they are touring with problematic bands.

 

Idk there are plenty of bands for them to tour with, that aren’t filled with shitty abusive people. Letting them off the hook for not doing their research because they are women feels a bit patronizing

 

No one is "punishing" women, their gender shouldn't absolve them from making responsible choices. I agree there's nuance, they need to get paid, the scene is a minefield etc. But they still hold some agency in this situation.

 

I agree, and I hope they use this as a wake up call to be more proactive in researching that or informing their management that it's something they expect them to do.

I also want to be clear that I don't think anyone in here was attacking them or blaming them for the acts of those other bands, it was more a reaction to the sentiment in the tweet that was posted. It didn't sit right with me that someone was automatically jumping to the conclusion that this happening to Doll Skin 3 times somehow reflects that they're doing something wrong. To me it's more a reflection of how rife the scene is with abusers/shitty people (I don't want to downplay anything members of these bands did, I'm just not really familiar with the allegations against Neck Deep or With Confidence other than that they exist).

 

I think both things can be true: there are a ton of shitty dudes in bands, and also you’re probably not doing your due diligence if it happens more than two times.

 

Okay then, let me re-phrase. Let's not automatically punish non-abusers for the acts of abusers they are tangentially connected with.

The implication in that tweet (or at least my inference) was that Doll Skin are intentionally touring with problematic artists and I don't think there's any evidence of that.

The point remains that it should not be on this group of young women, or any similarly-situated group, to answer for the acts of these other shitty people when those other people continue to be given a platform by those in power without anyone else in power saying boo.

This is a systemic issue within the music scene and general power structures in our society. Like it or not, in some ways we all rely on the tacit approval of those in positions of power and whom we expect to be looking out for us. So if there aren't concerns coming from their label, management, etc., which we have no indications there were, I'm not going to be too concerned with Doll Skin signing on for this tour. Like @ItsAndrew said, unless you're plugged into social media or otherwise "very online" and looking out for these things, they're not necessarily going to just come to you.

And here, when they were told there was an issue, they're seemingly doing the right thing or at least trying to do something.

 

that’s why when it was first posted about my reaction was why is tmp even touring to begin with? bands that tour with them shouldn’t be “let off the hook” so to speak but I also don’t think them not doing their due diligence is anywhere near as problematic as the fact that a band like tmp or neck deep are still booking tours to begin with. still, it is kind of weird it’s a recurring thing now that someone pointed out they’re playing with neck deep as well

 

TMP/With Confidence/Neck Deep/etc. are only able to keep touring because people haven't held them accountable, and that goes not just for the bands that agree to tour with them but also for all the venues that book them, the record labels who continue to have them on the roster, and the people who buy tickets to see them. If they weren't able to assemble a lineup, or if they weren't able to book venues, or if they didn't have record label backing, it would be a lot harder for them to continue touring. That's why bands refusing to tour with them, or, in the instance of Proper., bands dropping from their tours as a result of the allegations, are a crucial part of creating safer spaces.

Hopefully Doll Skin is able to drop from the tour now that they know. I understand that isn't an easy decision, especially if they were relying on that tour to make ends meet. I take them at their word that they didn't know beforehand, but also bands in general need to be better about doing due diligence about the people they choose to tour with imo. This kind of thing happens all too often.

 

it's hilarious because Hopeless will hold a band accountable (cough cough moose blood) when the band isn't making them money any longer

it's so fucking twisted

 

Yepp, all three of those bands (TMP, With Confidence, and Neck Deep) are on Hopeless and also happen to be three of their biggest bands right now. It's not a coincidence that they're protected while Moose Blood was (justifiably, of course) thrown to the wolves.

 

Emarosa too

 

I'd just like to add how difficult "researching" these bands can be. Take Neck Deep - I've never cared for them nor listened to them. I just googled "neck deep allegations" and every result is from 2015. One of the top articles says police dropped the case.

It's been repeated here on the forum many times, like with pinegrove, that only members of this community are aware of things.

 

a 30 second google search is fairly minimal work to make sure abusers and harassers don't get stream counts and potentially album purchases from me.

 

If a band truly cares about accountability and not helping to normalize abusers and retraumatize their survivors, some research before signing on to a tour is literally the least they can do.

 

If it’s old, it’s not a real accusation and police are always right. Okay.

 

I think something to note with Neck Deep would be that the member who was accused is not in the band anymore, and hasn't been since 2015. Forgive me but I haven't been paying much attention to Neck Deep the past few years, but are there other allegations against them? And as for With Confidence, I know the one member was kicked out and the other one gave like a *lazy but still better than the usual response in-the-scene apologies*.

I'm not trying to downplay any allegation or anything but I don't see any reason to believe Doll Skin is intentionally touring with problematic bands because most casual people who don't pay close attention don't realize or know about the problematic issues so it very well could never have even been brought up to them. It is good they responded to a fan with concerns with them touring with TMP and they are looking into it instead of ignoring it being brought to their attention, which they very easily could do.