General Politics Discussion VIII [ARCHIVED] • Page 2143

My god, fucking atrocious

 

I don’t know. I remember the same people arguing about how the Trump administration’s dehumanizing language matters to how it shapes the public response to policy.

 

Idk seems not good at this stage.

 

Is it good? No
Is it unexpected? Also no

 

we're gonna wind up with a vaccination rate below what is needed for herd immunity, which is going to mean that even vaccinated people are still at risk (because if a bunch of unvaccinated people are running around sick, even if the chances of each of those interactions infected you with covid are reduced by 95%... enough interactions and you'll still have a good chance of getting sick) and the pandemic is never going to end and then the people who didn't get vaccinated are gonna be like "see the vaccine doesn't work"

 

I liked this thread, explains amendment by amendment how the bill of rights is negated or sidestepped by our current justice system

Ohh beautiful for spaaaacious skies

 

I mean, yes, the language change is good. Using language like "illegal" only makes people to feel justified in their aggressions. Ideally, it would come with a more concrete change like abolishing ICE though.

 

This is very bad analysis. Go do the math to prove “good chance of getting sick.” Let alone what getting sick once vaxxed means for the person. Come on, this fear monger shit isn’t helpful nor the reality of even, less than half a herd immunity number.

 

we've already seen how well the virus can spread with everyone taking good safety precautions.

Definitely feels to me like if I go to a show or something, I'm going to have way more than 20x the number of interactions with other people than if I just go to the grocery store.

So overall, my risk of getting sick while vaccinated + living a more normal life would still be higher than my risks of unvaccinated + living a lockdown life.

We need enough people to get vaccinated so that is no longer the case.

 

20x more interactions in public, doesn't mean you're 20x more likely to get the virus when vaccinated.

I think this is beyond irrational and not remotely backed up by any data I've seen anywhere.

 

okay guess I'll cancel my pandemic flight to France I was totally planning

 

A massive communication failure is apparently that people do math like CNN:

 

Clucky gonna cluck

 

I have a really hard time believing this. What’s the article or evidence that says this is the case?

 

The second part is not necessarily irrational. It really depends on what one's lockdown life looks like. If one literally never leaves the house and has gone a year with coming within ten feet of another persons, then yeah I think it's pretty clear that going to a full-capacity concert even when vaccinated would be higher risk (because the "lockdown life" is about as close to 0% as possible). I'm assuming that's not an accurate description of clucky's lockdown life, but I do think it's an interesting discussion to figure out what level of risk post-vax is equal to the level of risk a very cautious (meaning, only going to the grocery store, double masking, etc.) person pre-vax experiences. Which is a conversation not only based on individual choice but also on environment, in the sense that an unvaccinated person in Australia would be at lower risk than a vaccinated person in the US since Australia has zero COVID outside of its quarantine facilities.

Also, yes, the math used by CNN above is of course absurdly stupid and shows a complete lack of understanding of how vaccine efficacy works, but I don't think clucky's math is anywhere near that bad

 

i mean, this just isnt a complete picture at all. in new york, positive cases and percentage of positive tests were down to single digit percentages early last summer, because of the safety practices put in place. Mask wearing and no open public spaces did the job here. The spike in the fall was directly contributed to the extreme lax’ing of restrictions when everyone just ‘had enough’ and decided to try and go back to normal and do all their fun fall activities without a care in the world.

 

I read a very illuminating article on Vox today about how South Korea dealt with COVID-19, and really got their numbers very low at a point where they were at serious risk for uncontrolled spread / exponential growth. This is all way before vaccines were even in the picture, and nothing is fucking rocket science. It's all just normal, common sense stuff that anyone with half a fucking brain knows works against a virus like this. All things that would have been easy for the US to do and would have saved HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of lives, and prevented so much more suffering on top of even those numbers.

 

Also how many tragic stories have we heard over the last year where someone’s loved one, or themselves, took every reasonable precaution they could and ended up still getting COVID because not “everyone” in their vicinity, line of work, out in public/grocery store/etc was following the precautions? So many grocery store employees and food service workers got it because while they were precautious to the best of their ability, their customers or coworkers were not so saying “everyone taking good safety precautions” is not what happened at all in the US and a real naive take

 

Going to disagree strenuously. If vaxxed people want to stay locked down forever, I won't stop them making their own choices, but thinking about what vaccines with far less efficacy have done to viruses in the past, knowing base infection rates, people should feel, based on their medical history, very confident in the vaccines if protocol is followed.

 

I will feel a little better personally when my kids are able to get vaccinated too.

It's amazing that my wife and I are vaccinated, and we feel extremely lucky - but nothing about our lives can change until the kids are able to be vaccinated too.

 

The article mentioned above btw

 

I’m ready to just ignore Ding tbh.

 

I mean, another way of looking at it is that Vietnam has a 50% greater population than the fully vaccinated population of the United States and in total has less than half of the deaths of the vaccinated population of the US. We're dealing with extremes here, which just shows how good the vaccines are and perhaps how low the risk actually is. To the point where we're on the verge of enough people getting vaccinated to make COVID a miniscule concern in everyday life (at least until a new variant emerges in some country that can't get vaccines which escapes the vaccine). But it's certainly incorrect to say that under no circumstances can the risk of getting sick or even dying be higher when vaccinated than when unvaccinated.