Accountability in Music • Page 488

For the record I dont think what ESH did is on the same level as Jesse Lacey. I still think he's shitty and has lost the right to a public platform. You're putting words in my mouth if you think I'm conflating the two.

 

I'd say the dude from Pinegrove who on record abused someone (and on record from the survivor didn't make amends and lied about it and all the other stuff we know) fits in this thread way more than someone who committed fraud, but that's just me I guess.

 

Didn't state that you personally, @Philll were conflating. Apologies if it came off as such. Just think there are multiple levels of offenses on a wide spectrum and imo based off what I've gleaned from the situation based on the accounts of reporters and those closely involved, it didn't seem to warrant being treated in the same vein as many other abuses. That in some of the more minor cases, there should be paths towards reconciliation and healing. For ESH, possibly being able to still create music, for Jesse, being a member of society, but not having that platform anymore.

 

If you can point me to where the survivor on record stated he lied about it and didn't make amends I will fully retract everything and support him not having a platform anymore. I hadn't heard there was anything from them on record.

 

We've had this convo so many times at this point that I don't know if it's worth repeating but:
Draw your own lines in terms of if you wanna listen to them or support them or whatever. If you think everything is good based off of the shitty P4k revival article then do you. Just know that there are multiple other sources, some from the actual survivor and some from people who were in contact with other survivors, who say that things aren't as clear as that article made it out to be.

I just wanna make it clear that just because Half Waif or Phoebe still fuck with them does not mean that he is innocent/forgiven for what he did, and you should not use that as your litmus test for whether or not you should support an abuser.

 

I'd love to see these as that would help clear up a lot.

 

Are one of those people the survivor? Or just someone's take.

 

Pretty sure this has all already been hashed out in the past with this specific user so the bad faith here is just staggering

 

I'm editing the post and updating as I scour through 2-3 year old posts, because for some reason you are asking me to prove to you that this true

 

This all sounds....so familiar...

 

It's not bad faith. I just don't want certain situations getting lumped in with others, because that just, unfortunately, hurts and discredits legitimate cases. It's been the same circular argument and I've stated multiple times that I'm fully ready to side with you, but the only thing I ever get are third-party tweets. You then just stated there were sources from the actual victim, but then continue to just link people's twitter takes.

I always try to be incredibly gracious and understanding with my language, as I just want to know what the hell happened. And there just seems to be a schism between those who believe Phoebe/Half waif/other artists and publications, and those that believe the couple other artists and tweets that claim otherwise.

I'll just drop it, because it's never productive. I just was hoping to see things from the survivor to make it clear. I haven't purchased Pinegrove anything since the accusations, because I don't like supporting people I don't know are good people, but I also don't want there to just be one blanket category for these situations.

 

Seriously just shut the hell up. Like I'm so sick of this ridiculous obtuse bullshit. Stop coming into this thread just to troll and be a prick. We went through all of this with you last year, you're choosing not to listen, so just stop posting about it. If you want to listen to Pinegrove guilt-free, go ahead and do that on your own time in private, literally nobody is stopping you from doing so. I truly don't understand why you keep doing this.

 

If I wanted to be a troll, I'd be bumping the Pinegrove thread excited about their stupid movie. I'm trying to see these sources from the survivor I've been asking for...for years. All I get is the same twitter takes and 4th hand accounts from leekrat, who was temporarily banned from this site for targetting people. I have to sugar coat every post I make because it only agrees with 98% of your views.

 

Keep telling on yourself, I promise you you're helping your case.

 

Phoebe/Half Waif have never said anything on record regarding the situation, have they? Has anyone aside from Evan come to his defense?

 

Can't seem to find an on-record statement about the situation from her.

 

Getting "proof" in these situations is difficult and survivors are often harassed

 

So, therefore, no one is "believing" Phoebe or anyone who works with Evan - they haven't said a single thing about it aside from their very public support.

What's happening is you, and others, not believing multiple sources of either the initial survivor or other people who claim Evan has harassed them.

 

have a good day!

 

I really don't want to seem like a jerk, but I am asking for the third time for some sort of source from the initial survivor. Not asking for "proof" of like DNA, or text message screenshots, or anything. Just some sort of direct source from the survivor that they disagree with how things are handled and that the articles were lies. The only thing I get every single time is a link to leerkat or someone on twitter who said they heard that the person wasn't happy.

And I'd wager that we can assume from her very open public support of Pinegrove that Phoebe, very involved in the MeToo movement and a staunch feminist, where she is on this.

And I fully understand it is possible he is an abuser and Phoebe still supports him! The whole Billie Eilish and XXXTenacioun thing is incredibly problematic! I am fully open to believing it is true, because I could see it happening, I just have not, in 3 years, seen a direct take of even the feelings from the initial victim on the situation now.

 

You're asking me to go back into 3 + years of posts from various different threads to find you something more detailed than a person explicitly saying: "The survivor cannot speak out herself but has asked people she is close with to push back against the narrative presented by Pitchfork. Oh and also I know another survivor who is saying that Evan harassed them".

 

And, just as you feel uncomfortable lumping Evan in with Jesse Lacey, I feel uncomfortable labeling every person "very involved in the MeToo movement" as trustworthy, lol.

 

Someone being a staunch feminist or even survivor themselves doesn't make their judgment unimpeachable. People are very complicated and full of contradictions.

With Pinegrove, my feeling is that where there's smoke there's fire. There is a band that is liked on this site that triggers the ever living hell out of me because one of their members is a god tier abuse apologist and almost wrecked my mental health to the point I barely made it out of the first half of 2017 alive. We live in the same city and he and my abuser both have histories of being vengeful with me, so I don't name him or the band publicly. Maybe that'll change someday, it hasn't yet. That said: some of my very good friends in the industry know and have been given permission to speak about it in controlled settings when they need to warn someone. I would hope somebody would believe them and not insist they had to hear it from me, which would be actually dangerous. With leerkat, a personal friend of one of the survivors... I don't see how it's different.

 

believe matty healy!