General Politics Discussion VIII [ARCHIVED] • Page 775

Why does AOC feel this way but Bernie was able to stick it out for so long? He never felt as much of an explicit exoneration?

 

Wait .. WHAT

 

I think the lesson on the AOC thing is the left is incompatible with the Democratic Party. The Dem Party will never accept or allow the left to thrive, will scapegoat them, and throw them to the wolves Re: conservatives who want them literally dead. AOC’s political shortcomings, like Bernie’s, are a result of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole rather than personal failing. Who can blame AOC for not feeling certain that she wants to continue doing this?

Moreover, I’m not sure it’s good for the left to be subsumed into the Democratic Party because the Democratic Party is widely disliked, with the exception of certain left policy points, which are tainted by association with people like Nancy Pelosi.

 

Oh this is terrible

 

I imagine he thinks if he just wears down people enough like his lawsuits in the past, they’ll just give it to him to shut him up.

 

Agreed but if that’s the case then there’s no path forward for the progressive wing and we should just resign to fate of being subsumed by them. Not sure if there’s a populist way forward for this wing that’s encompassing, since there’s no mainstream media apparatus that coalesces around a candidate, similar to Fox News. Unless we get ranked choice or other electoral reform, we’re forever swinging between center and far-right, forever.

I can’t resign myself and the country to that fate

Edit: this just further hammers home AOC’s point about building an online media presence. There’s no infrastructure that’s combating the far-right fake news media. Democrats definitely are resisting setting it up because it gives more power to progressive ideals, and we can have none of that

 

Oh I’m not trying to come off as hopeless, I just think our future lies outside the realm of electoral politics. I think rather than trying to organize people as voters - to send a message to politicians who don’t give a fuck about them - the only foreseeable future that gets better is one where we organize workplaces, organize around issues of debt, and other areas that impact the actual lives of every day people. I don’t think working within the Democratic Party does anything but get the left put down and de-legitimized by bad faith actors who’d rather suck off John Kasich so he can deliver them 15 votes and lose his own precinct.

 

The milkman is sure gonna be pissed after he already claimed victory.

 

I think a combination of both going forward puts the left in a better position. If grassroots organising continues and grows that will create new demands of the Democratic Party. I think it definitely helps to have some elected representatives from the left already in the party and hopefully their numbers grow. There'll be a lot of bullshit from the centre of the party and the media like we've seen today but the popularity of the left-wing representatives already elected proves there's support for left-wing politics out there.

That said, I completely agree that it's not surprising AOC is unsure about staying in politics. As much as I think she's an asset to the party and is the person I ideologically associate closest with in the party, I can't begin to imagine the stress of having her own party alienating her every chance they get. If she leaves politics it'll be the party and country's loss but she doesn't deserve the nonsense she has to put up with and I wouldn't blame her or judge her if it becomes too much to deal with anymore.

 

he cares about being seen as a loser, he doesn't care about not being president anymore

 

I still think we’re about 5 years away from a Dem party that is much more receptive to further left ideas. The leadership of the party is extremely old and out of touch. There not much of them hanging on at this poin

 

LOL.

 

Hope you're right. But the fact that the party is so unbelievably adamant about strong left-wing policies being unpopular and unable to win in most elections (despite all evidence to the contrary) and have essentially tried the same tactics of appeasing and pandering to the right for 40+ years leaves me fairly unconfident. The only reason it worked this time was because Trump is so horrendous that ~50% of Americans will automatically vote for anyone but him, but the Dems seem to be taking this win as a message that "oh, we went too far-left and almost lost because of it." But I'd gladly take Biden deciding not to run in 4 years and handing the reigns to someone much more progressive

 

Mine wound up at 11 hours and 40 minutes which I thought it would be way more than that too

 

I have screen time turned off lol. Too depressing

 

yeah idk, i just don’t think it’s going to work out trying to organize within the Democratic Party. And i don’t think we can wait on generational turnover in leadership there either to deliver us - i think as long as the Democrats pursue high dollar donors and adhere themselves to destructive industries, they not only will be disinterested in left politics, they will work to actively put it down. I don’t know how you change that from the inside.

i get the idea that electoral politics can bring people into the fold, i guess. And for that maybe it has utility. Personally though, i just saw five years where the Dems have more enthusiastically and effectively fought the left than they did the republicans, and I don’t believe you can make common cause with those people.

 

WE ONLY GOT ONE GOOD DAY FUCK