General Politics Discussion VII [ARCHIVED] • Page 985

If anything, their claim of it causing a 72% reduction in police violence -- even if it's true! -- absolutely DOES convey that it is NOT the bare minimum! Someone who doesn't know better would see that and think "Oh wow, this is all so simple, just a few of these easy policies and it will all be over!"

 

I know quite a few people that need those things to be argued for, and have no idea they’re common sense. Just a casual read on my Facebook feed shows me it’s far more widespread than those of us that follow this daily.

 

Cool shit.

 

Yes but my point is that people *should* be addressing them as if they are common sensical, *because* it is the bare minimum. It's not that what they're saying is wrong, it's what they're omitting when talking about the reality of how the police and police violence operates.

 

The amount of replies mentioning lead reduction are interesting. I knew it was a theory but didn’t realize how widespread it was.

 

For Susie and John Q white picket fence, 2.5 kids and a dog, I think it works as a strategy to get them to start thinking about these things in a different way. Because, I don't think most people see it that way right now. If I went and sat down with a college or high-school friend right now in the suburbs and tried to explain abolishing from the start, for example, they'd look at me like I'm insane (and they like me!), but if I come at it with, "here's 8 things we can push for right now" I have a pretty good way to start the conversation and work my way into the rest of it as they learn more, and the silly thing is, they're going to think some of those things are radical on their face to start with. I read through the Facebook replies of people I don't know but I'm friends with on that platform and I think there have to be various levels of reaching different people. How I talk to a 20 something in this thread about things is different than the 38 year accountant with a kid and obsession with Rosé ... and I do think some of the "lib centrist" shit is a good vector to use at times.

 

While they aren’t claiming these are the bare minimum, they also don’t declare that this is all that needs to be done. It was just launched the other day so the site is incomplete but I would hope and assume that the FAQ when it is placed will answer some concerns people are having.

As Jason said above, there are a lot of people who still don’t even understand these are common sense and need to see the data and information regarding how those policies help.

 

add "Elmo wants to end racism" to insane 2020 statements, me too Elmo

 

Is she talking to a mirror all day

 

oof

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1182620968746799&id=100009967212544

two separate incidents!

 

There is nothing that is stopping them from promoting these things while also promoting ideas that are substantively far more radical even though they can be pitched just as easily. Talking about police budgets and how they have seen continuous gains for decades with nothing to show for it is not something that would come off as radical to anyone, even people sympathetic to police. In my experience, "apolitical" people also tend to have an intuitive sense (from an almost conservative perspective) that the only thing many people understand is force, and that many "liberal" policy proposals are dumb not by virtue of their intention but because they are substantively empty. If I were to talk to someone who is concerned about police accountability (which I have been doing all week), I would pitch the simple idea of: what do you think they are more scared about, some more paperwork or legal requirements, or less money? Anyone can easily understand that the latter is far more of a threat, and far more likely to get the police to get their shit together

And again, they do not need to explicitly claim that it is the bare minimum for that to be the actual effect it has on the reader. Saying just how incredibly effective those reforms are distracts from the point that all police, even in places that enacted most of those policies, have functionally very little accountability for the heinous shit that they do.

 

insane

 

beyond parody

 

I never said you had to START with police abolition. That's obviously absurd. But there are far more substantive things that can just as easily be pushed as reasonable and common-sensical. And the fact that it's people who *should* know this, like Deray or Obama or whatever others Dems are pushing this, just conveys a serious amount of apathy at the most ridiculous time

 

hahaahahahahahahahaha

 

Campaign Zero (who launched 8 Can’t Wait) definitely has a lot more substance and important policies on their main website that change the actual structure of policing as opposed to just common sense policies. So I would say they are doing both. 8 Can’t Wait’s purpose is to inform people of things that can and must happen right now in terms of how police use force and such, while their main agenda remains about changing the structure and accountability of policing

 

This is also ignoring the fact that the Dems have an obvious interest in not doing anything perceived as "too" radical regarding the police! They rely on being about law-and-order just as much as the GOP, particularly with wealthy donors who would gladly switch over to a politician who would promise to install more cops and protected their businesses and gated communities.

 

Again, companies and city agencies are cutting their ties with the MPD. The Minneapolis City Council is talking about disbanding and dismantling the MPD. Cities across the country are talking about slashing police budgets for the first time in forever. This is not an either/or situation on what can be done "right now." People are in the mood for serious change this second, and if anything, waiting too long to push your "main agenda" just risks it falling out of fashion

 

I dunno about that, anytime I bring up cutting funding to the police I get pushback and even "we should be giving them more money!" -- there's a reason that's a Republican area of emphasis, it does well in the white 'burbs.