General Politics Discussion (VI) [ARCHIVED] • Page 2264

Beside by the people that it reportedly happened to saying it happened. I’m sorry, that’s evidence and matters. Two women saying they were harassed online is in no way something that makes me go “uhm, no way! prove it to me immediately cause nothing like that has ever happened before.”

Oh, the women only got a “small number” of threats. Guess it’s ok now.

Watching supporters downplay this kind of behavior, which can be seen by simply looking, is only going to end badly. That the current line is “well, sure, there were maybe some death threats, but all the other piling on was just regular old trolling” — is absurd when taken at face value. That no one understands why it would be all taken together, and that if there’s only a couple death threats thrown in with the stream of “jokes” that the person on the receiving end wouldn’t see the entire ordeal as a whole, is naive.

 

If the only reason a person decides not to vote for Bernie is because some of his supporters are mean online, then they deserve the four more years of trump they’ll help bring about, tbh. Can’t imagine a dumber reason not to vote for someone.

 

Yeah imagine getting all of this thrown at you on your phone, on your social media accounts, on your email, etc...it piles up fast and becomes overwhelming.

 

most people I’ve seen on twitter say they will be unhappy but will still vote for him in the general. But there’s too much uncertainty in the primary to just brush off potential supporters out there who are sick of red rose douche bags in their mentions mocking them or worse

 

Again, I truly don’t care how much a Bernie supporter harassed me online, it wouldn’t change the fact that he’s obviously the best candidate in the primary and he would still get my vote. Anyone who is selfish enough to want to harm his chances of winning the primary just because some people were mean to them online doesn’t then get to complain when KLOB! or Wall Street Pete loses to Trump in November, imo.

 

I am willing to bet there are people that do care. In fact, we have a lot of them that have spoken up about it specifically!

 

Pretty easy to go look at twitter and see the replies

All of the candidates seem to get a similar number of conservative trolls attacking them. But don't see a lot of Warren and Pete supporters attacking Bernie. Do see a lot of Bernie supporters attacking Warren and Pete. To call the claims of increased hostility from Bernie supporters "completely disingenuous and made up" is borderline gaslighting.

The problem with the claim "Bernie's supporters are being toxic, therefore Bernie is bad" has nothing to do with the validity of the statement "Bernie's supporters are being toxic". It is that even if the statement "Bernie's supporters are being toxic" is true, the conclusion "Bernie is bad" doesn't follow

So trying to fight the claim "Bernie's supporters are being toxic, therefore Bernie is bad" by disputing whether or not Bernie supporters are being toxic is gonna get you nowhere. Far better to just point out the flaw in the logic, because that is based in objective truth whereas the truth behind "Bernie's supporters are being toxic" is much more personal and subjective.

 

I’m aware, and they’re wrong if that’s the reason they don’t vote for Bernie!

 

This has felt right since I saw it this morning and keep ruminating on it.

 

I, for some reason, don’t think you’d tell a woman that had been harassed online “they’re wrong” for not being enthusiastic for Bernie because his supposed supporters harassed her for days. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say if someone’s gotten a death threat and your reaction is “you’re wrong“ for reacting to that, that isn’t going to be a particularly good way of winning people to your cause. Being white and male online gives immense privilege to shoulder harassment others do not have.

I’m one of the few here, I’m assuming, who has received multiple and specific death threats over the years. That shit ain’t a just shake it off kinda thing.

 

To blame that behavior on Bernie is just not accurate or fair, though. It’s wrong to do.

 

And to think that everyone facing (or seeing) harassment thinks through a pure logic tree in order to make their decisions would be to just ignore human beings. We don’t make purely rational decisions in the best of scenarios, let alone in times of stress of duress.

Thinking people will be emotionless vulcans is the first mistake.

 

“Logic tree?” What? It’s pretty clear that Bernie doesn’t support that behavior, has never encouraged it, and has spoken out against it multiple times (including today). The supporters are not the candidate. This isn’t a complex scenario we’re talking about here.

Unless you’re suggesting that these people are being “controlled by their emotions” or should otherwise be expected to act irrationally?

 

People don’t act rationally in regular situations. Pretending they should or will under stress or duress is just silly. Your idea that someone is going to see, or experience, harassment and go “well, this group of people is not actually the candidate they support, so therefore, I shall just ignore it and not let it influence me and my decision making in anyway” is ... divorced from reality.

We just saw voters making decisions about who to vote for based on eeeny-meeny-whatever, if you think seeing and or experiencing harassment isn’t going to play any roll in some number of voters, I don’t know what to even say.

 

Well if that’s the case and that’s the premise you’re operating from it only further supports my original point which is that’s a really bad reason not to vote for someone lol. Like, “we’re going to get a Trump victory” bad

 

1) Lots of people will use really bad reasons not to vote for someone, so maybe the idea of giving them the easy reasons to dismiss someone is not a great strategy to win votes.

2) Being harassed by a large group of people that support someone is a pretty compelling reason to be turned off by the person they “support.” This seems readily self apparent.

 

Going on my weekly playlist now.

 

Is there really a big voting block actually getting harassed by a group of Bernie supporters or is this just a narrative being brought up every time someone posts something dumb and gets called dumb? Is there really a large number of people getting harassed?
This seems so stupid to me I’m glad I don’t have Twitter.

 

good thing it is not now and never has been Bernie’s strategy then!

Only if they encourage it/don’t speak out against it.

 

Burning my American Psycho blu-ray because there are douchebag dudebros that think Patrick Bateman is cool

 

If last cycle’s election was decided by something like 77k people in three states, I’d be remiss to dismiss anything that potentially softens support for a candidate or suppresses turnout. Just off the top of my head I can think of 20 or so incidents that have become relatively big ‘news’ to the point of being written up, but you can do something as simple as search for Warren supporters on Twitter, just pick a few random ones, and look at the replies. I see it literally every single day, dozens of times at least, just by swiping right on a tweet and looking at the replies. And that’s not counting the ones where someone in the popular left circles decides to point the cannon. If it gets to the point where people are making SNL jokes about it, I think it’s enough of an issue that even if it’s just optical, or even if it’s just made up, (just to take the question at its face) it’s worth looking at for the long term strategy of winning and election.

 

Hence my reason for pointing out why people should stop doing it and bringing the association.

If you think that’s how it works and that’s what people’s brains are going to do ... ok. I can pretty much guarantee it’s not.

 

what Jason said. YOU might not care because you are an ideologue like the rest of us, but the large majority of people out there don’t vote based on stuff like that, and how “good” supporting a candidate makes them feel ends up being a big part of it. That’s part of why someone like Pete is doing good right now.