General Politics Discussion [ARCHIVED] • Page 209

Looking at Welfare Reform did, I'm not sure you can draw a straight line from this to "hillary clinton's fault". Welfare reform rewarded people that got jobs, while people who didn't were kicked off the rolls and provided no assistance. That's not to say it's not possible that the reduction in benefits that passed via block granting might have also played a roll, but considering the reality of the welfare system pre and post 1996, the fact that she got a job made it more likely post-1996 that she'd retain assistance in some way than pre-1996, since the pre-1996 system was much more generous to people who didn't work. The expansion of the EITC also may have made working more lucrative for a mother of four than not working and collecting welfare, though I can't remember if that was a part of Welfare Reform or not, and it would probably depend on other assistance programs (i.e. SNAP benefits)

In every critique I've seen of welfare reform, it's never been that the EITC wasn't enough of a boost to mothers with multiple children who lost welfare benefits because they got a job--it was more what happened to the families who's mothers couldn't get jobs. They lost their support altogether and the EITC obviously does nothing to help them.

Can you elaborate on the bankruptcy thing? I can't seem to find any change to bankruptcy law that was passed during the Clinton admin. Only thing I've been able to find is a bill she voted on in 2001 that ended up getting vetoed. I think one passed in 2005 but she wasn't on the senate floor to vote for it.

 

This will almost definitely be something the Clinton campaign starts pushing more heavily as we get closer to the debates. But considering the crazy shit Trump has said, and the somewhat disassociation he has with the Republican establishment, I don't think even many on the left are connecting Trump to that fiasco.

 

Also, considering that voting for "my cracker ass" would almost undoubtedly mean voting Republican, since I'm an educated white guy--no thanks. I'll vote for the person more likely to help people that don't have the same advantages I do--and actually has a chance to win.

 

the supreme court seat is the only reason im considering voting for her

 

Yeah, speaking as an outsider it's fair enough that people would vote Clinton if nothing else to keep Trump out, but then from what I know I can't really blame people for not being happy about supporting either. When there seem to be plenty of legit grievances with her coming from lots of different groups it doesn't really seem fair to just dismiss that out of hand like a lot of her supporters and surrogates seem to, or to generalise it as people who are privileged enough for it to not matter.

 

Are you familiar with the time limits instilled in welfare reform? Probably not. As for bankruptcy, the bill disqualified women who were not receiving child support. I'm not going to get into my personal experience. The point of my post was to show how, in reality, one's experience can orient someone against the Clintons.

 

Karla was great.

 

As I said, I don't actually give a shit who you vote for. Don't invoke me when you do so. This is the sort of "white man's burden" shit I completely reject. Poor you. You should vote for your interests, but you vote for the person who kills less brown people. How awesome. Thanks for your efforts. Shall I congratulate you for your sacrifice?

 

Weird stat.

 

I'm completely familiar with it, but you said "after she got a job", which seemed to indicate that getting the job is why she lost the benefits.

I get the bankruptcy thing, but as far as I can tell, that bill didn't pass until 2005 and Clinton didn't even vote on it because she was with Bill in the hospital at the time. It seems strange to bring that up as a reason to not trust/like Clinton.

 

I mean, thank god we had white liberals voting for us in the eighties and nineties. Who knows what we would have faced? Ugh.

 

Let me clarify: the point at which she received a job, her benefits were reduced to around one hundred and seventy dollars a month. Subsequently, she had surpassed the time limit, at which point she was kicked off the rolls. Whe she tried to reapply, they said they made too much money.

 

I have never really enjoyed the subtle mocking of the "poorly educated". Feels classist.

 

The Supreme Court is just another space of contestation.

 

I don't require anything from you other than giving an honest argument instead of a vapid one that ignores reality just to advance the cause of a fringe governing ideology. Sometimes you do that, other times you don't. Whenever you don't, too many people let it slide and don't say anything because they don't feel like getting into it with you. Sometimes I'm stubborn enough to do so, and honestly I enjoy the discussion because outside of these long ass discussions this thread can be quite bland sometimes.

Anyways, I'm not the one claiming to do something noble with the way I'm voting--that would be you and the other socialists and/or bernie-or-bust folk, who seem to take pride in pounding your chests over your refusal to vote for Hillary because *reasons here*. But when you say things like "vote for yourself not for anyone else cracker", I'm going to point out that chances are my vote will do more to help others than it would to help me considering who I'm voting for and what the different parties are proposing. That's not something I bring up myself because, well, who cares, but don't mistake me bringing it up in response to your attacks as me looking for a cookie for doing it, because I don't give much of a shit who pats me on the back for my vote, nor do I think I deserve one. It's a response to you, nothing more. But you're smart enough to know that, and would instead make a post like this one anyway because you know it might me look like a dick. Well, more of a dick than I normally am.

 

David, you are the type of person who would vote for a democrat that systemically extended the murder and warehouse of black people, and ask for a thanks because, somehow, it helped me. If that is the favor you are doing me, no thanks. If this is all you and the white "allies" have to offer, no thanks. We have our own methodology.

 

Labour sued by members barred from leadership vote
For people who were following this story.

 

My mom used to get the "you make too much money" line too, which was always fun. Not sure how much income limits were subjected to federal vs. state guidelines, though. Did Welfare Reform alter income levels at which TANF was suspended?

Oh it definitely is. But I think it's worse, IMO, for smart people to feed less educated people misinformation in order to scare them and/or get their votes. I think both parties are equally guilty of the latter--dems love to lie to their low information voters to get them to vote. But the former seems to have been co-opted by the GOP in recent years. Newt just outright denying facts because they disagreed with the fear mongering of the RNC last week was just sad. Or scary. Or comedy gold. Probably all 3.

 

I'm not looking for a thanks at all. Just don't ignore reality during arguments concerning policies and who's proposing what.

Also, voting in the national presidential election =/= the only things people do/can do.

 

DNC doing themselves a disservice by parading out these bland establishment senators during prime time hours. Get Michelle, Warren, and Bernie out there.

At least Franken will be sassy.

 

I love when welfare reform gets brought up, its destructiveness softened, and its long-term contributions to homelessness, imprisonment, and economic immobility minimized within the discussion of spurious variables.

 

He's been so quiet during this cycle. I've been wondering when they would deploy him to try and corral the dissenting left.

 

Yeah considering his past with dealing with the kooky right on a comedic level, Trump getting the nomination seemed like a perfect time to get him out there as a face for the party.

I love Warren/Bernie, but Michelle is probably the speech I actually want to watch and don't need to just get the highlights from. I hope she gets into the political fray down the line here, she seems like she's further left of Barry, maybe I'm reading that totally wrong though.