Chorus.fm’s Top 25 Albums of 2019 • Page 5

I meeeeean, that’s not how it works though. I'd be willing to bet that I'm not the only person that contributed to this list that has no idea who NF is (that record in particular was on none of the individual lists shown in the main post)

The thing is, 13 people with different tastes contributed to this list. The idea is that it's supposed to be representative of all of our tastes as a whole, but in a year like this where I think we can agree that SO much acclaimed music was released across all genres, it shouldn't be that big of a surprise when a lot of it leans in the general direction of the type of music that brought most of us to this site to begin with. It's probably worth noting here that the records voted for were so scattered that we couldn't even put out a top 30 like usual-- there were so many ties by the end that the list had to be shortened. I'm not gonna be the person to spill all the beans about the entire voting process since I'm not in charge of it, but maybe one of the staffers will help illuminate a little more. I do wish there was more diversity on this list, but idk, it's a weird thing to be this bothered by considering the circumstances IMO

 

Yeah, I think that gets to the root of it is there wasn't a big consensus hip-hop pick or picks that people usually rally behind like Kendrick, old Kanye, Vince Staples. And the bigger breakouts this year like DaBaby and Meghan Thee Stallion might not be as palatable for this panel.

I'm not a big fan of criticizing lists because it's all personal and who am I to judge what touched people this year, even NF. But it felt like an oversight to have the blandest, whitest rapper as the only representative of the genre.

 

this is what I like to call missing the point entirely.

I would have much rather had no hip hop included at all than the ONE included being a white rapper who not only is white but actively tries to distance himself from the genre/history of hip hop. Like even the fact that it’s being celebrated in the blurb as ~not littered with expletives the way other hip hop is~ is a fucking yikes from me and the part that is truly embarrassing to me

white rappers exploiting and capitalizing off of black culture and going “tehe I’m not like the other rappers” is gross

When girls are adamant that they’re ‘not like other girls’ it’s misogyny. Rappers being adamant they’re ‘not like other rappers’ is, well, racism.

 

I mean this year gave us IGOR, and I am forever thankful for that awesome album.

and @Rob Hughes for recommending it to me.

also Grey Area by Little Simz is a good one too.

 

People can criticize the list if they want. I personally think there is a big difference between that and the post in question, which was textbook trolling. Our contributors work for free and spent a lot of time on this list. That post was needlessly antagonistic and is par for the course for a user who has received more than 10 separate warnings over the past year alone. This user has repeatedly failed to learn the lesson intended from warnings and bannings and has continued a pattern of behavior that goes against the rules and guidelines of the site. Frankly, it is the kind of posting we wanted to leave behind at AbsolutePunk. For the most part, I think we have, and users that we had issues with back then have largely embraced the vision of Chorus as a more welcoming, constructive place. This user has not done that.

For those asking, the list is compiled based on individual ballots. Each person submits up to a top 30, with each slot on each list good for a certain point value. We tally up the point totals and what we end up with is the list. There was no conscious decision to include only a white hip hop artist (beyond a few people really loving that album and ranking it high), or to ignore some of the poor choices Blink have made this year (which Jason did reference in his blurb). Do note that not everyone who shared a ballot made a blog post or even wrote a blurb for the list.

I’m not sure what to say beyond that. Albums that get votes make the list; albums that don’t, don’t. Our contributor pool is smaller than it used to be, so each person’s top 3-5 picks do carry a substantial amount of weight. And we don’t really have anyone writing about hip hop right now, so that’s definitely a gap we should look to fill in 2020. If you or someone you know might be interested in that, I’m sure @Jason Tate would love to hear from you.

 

I’m going to be honest it sure seems like it was way more of a case of bruised ego since you directly told him to fuck off then banned him. You were obviously reacting to being hurt (as also evidenced by the ‘contributors work hard, for free’ bit). It seems like it was a case of his past being used to justify this knee jerk reaction to being hurt. I’m not standing up for anything he’s said in the past but right now in this thread what he said is ABSURD, to me, to ban over.

I agree with his post and would post it word for word right now. Would that get me banned? Would it get me a warning?



But furthermore it doesn’t matter if it was a “conscious decision”. SOMEONE had final approval over the list and the people contributing to it. Everything I and others have said about NF are extremely valid critiques that go far beyond “this music is good I like it” or “this album sucks”.

I can be (and am) disappointed that a place that seems to be really progressive and ‘woke’ put blink 182 AND NF in their list at all. It’s concerning to me the kind of message that puts out about the kind of place this is.

And at the end of the day no one has to agree with me but I’m still going to express my opinions.

 

And for the record I get it we’re all human it’s understandable to feel offended or hurt by what aliens said- like it’s been said, a lot of effort went into it. Of course it hurts when someone bashes it.
I don’t think that’s a valid case for banning. But you know what? I don’t work here so what do I know lol

 

The difference between aliens' post and anyone else's, imo, is a long history of behavior that is not welcomed on this site. To ignore that context feels significant to me. It's clear that user has friends on the site, so folks can joke about it as much as they'd like, but their posts today (including bragging about their initial post) were a clear continuation of an aggressive pattern of behavior that they were already warned about 10 times.

I didn't even issue the warning, but I don't understand rallying behind someone with a history of aggression and targeted harassment, even if they are your friend. To me, that continues to be the most disappointing aspect of a community I do feel genuinely works to be as progressive and inclusive as possible.

I recognize the irony of saying that in the thread for a list that is clearly lacking a significant amount of hip-hop. We've done better in the past, and we'll do better in the future.

 

I understand taking someone’s history into account but I do think there’s a difference between taking history into account and using that history to justify a knee jerk reaction.

Even you saying “a history of aggressiveness and targeted harassment” honestly doesn’t even have a place here because that’s so clearly not what this was at all??
He also didn’t “brag” as far as I know?? He literally posted a screenshot with an emoji which is entirely up to interpretation. I could be wrong but the way I interpreted it was “lmao wow my opinion made him so mad he told me to fuck off”
Like? What?? Are we really talking about aggression but gonna side step right around that?! Lmao. A staff member literally replied to criticism with ‘fuck off, month ban’.
I’m literally not going to bat for any previous behavior just speaking exclusively on what happened in this thread.

like, if I could say the SAME EXACT THING he posted and not even get a warning then how on earth can you say it’s justified that it earns him a ban??

 

Past history and observed behavior absolutely has a role in how moderators deal with and handle different scenarios and cases. Specifically because there's a warning system that leads to bans, so, users with past warnings, and more of them, will have different outcomes when new infractions occur. A user without any such warnings, or infractions, would not. The more warnings, the longer and more likely you'll be banned for subsequent warnings. The ban is therefore the result of the totality, and very rarely any singular entity. (more info on warnings: moderation policy)

 

Okay so if I say the same thing right now will I get a warning then? Bc it’s the same behavior.

If I was a staffer I’d say this list is bad and embarrassing. In fact I’d be embarrassed to be a staffer after this thread tbh

 

I don't know how to word what I just said any better than what I wrote the first time: "Past history and observed behavior absolutely has a role in how moderators deal with and handle different scenarios and cases."

 

If someone else can say the same exact thing and not get so much as a warning then how can you in good faith say that it’s an appropriate response?!? I totally understand where there’s lots of situations where someone is being a repeat offender and you feel like your hands are tied, but thinking that the statement made is a bannable offense is downright insane to me. Like truly bizarre.
Are only people with a “good” history given the benefit of the doubt when they make comments seem as offensive? Genuine question.

it’s downright absurd to me that we call his comment aggressive and worthy of banning but the actual staff response of “fuck off” ISNT noted as being aggressive at all lmao

 

I still don't know how to word it better than what I wrote the first time: "Past history and observed behavior absolutely has a role in how moderators deal with and handle different scenarios and cases." But, here's an attempt: If someone has been a complete asshole to you for years, any comment they make will be seen through that lens, if someone else says the same comment without the history, there's a chance it could be taken and viewed differently. I'd imagine this is an observable truth to just about anyone that's dealt with groups/people in general.

From my first post:

Specifically because there's a warning system that leads to bans, so, users with past warnings, and more of them, will have different outcomes when new infractions occur. A user without any such warnings, or infractions, would not. The more warnings, the longer and more likely you'll be banned for subsequent warnings. The ban is therefore the result of the totality, and very rarely any singular entity.

Very rarely, in terms of the warning system, is the final "warning" something that would cause someone to be banned right away to begin with. That's why they are warning points, and not immediate bans, and that's why there's a system where multiple warnings can lead to a ban, and one singular warning does not.

It was aggressive. I haven't seen anyone say otherwise.

 

People, I've been here. I've been vocal about how stagnant and whitewashed and "boring" these EOTY lists wind up being for over a decade now. The solution is to do something about it. Make threads for artists of color or hip hop artists. Rec musicians in other threads. Get people talking about music that you want to see promoted or listed! If you remember the hip hop crew from AP, they were absolutely fucking ruthless when it came to calling people out on their lists. Hell, I'm sure that some of you in here complaining about this were getting made fun of by me or someone else in 2010 for having a shitty bland list.

It sucks that representation isn't there. I'm not happy with the list either, but I do see growth. I see people all over this site having a dialogue about music that was not there 10 years ago. That's growth. It's slow, slower than it should be, but to act like the majority of active staff members on this site aren't engaged with a ton of different music is a bit silly. I don't know how the lists get counted up, I don't know who half of the staffers are who voted. If you look at your list and it's made up of only white artists or only male artists or only "rock" artists, maybe try checking out a different style. Ask for recs, dive into the hip hop thread. It's a lot nicer now than it used to be.

Educate people about the music they're missing instead of telling them to be embarrassed. I did that for a long time and it got me nowhere.

 

Okay. Did he get a warning?

I’m not getting into the rest because honestly the first part just reads as hypocrisy - even if it’s understandable hypocrisy....it’s still hypocrisy. And as for the rest we clearly don’t see eye to eye on what makes sense for warnings/banning, but again I don’t work here so whatever

 

I've talked to Craig about it.

 

How did I miss the point? The post I quoted appears to be aimed at the process by which this list was formed, and that’s what I addressed.

As far as the blurb goes, I dunno, I wouldn’t say Eric was “celebrating” the lack of explicit content as much as just like, stating a fact? But I 100% agree with the rest of your post regarding the racist overtones of a white hip hop artist distancing themselves from the genre’s history, and would never argue otherwise. I know nothing about NF and if that really is his known gimmick then yeah, that’s extremely wack and maybe that contributor could learn something from this conversation. Even still, I reject the implication that alternatively having zero hip hop artists on this list would somehow realistically solve a single problem here.

Anyway idk this whole conversation feels tainted to me because it feels like a lot of it stemmed from aliens being suspended and I don’t have much of an opinion on that so tbh I’m kinda done. There was some great hip hop made by black people last year and I genuinely hope that more of it has a greater impact on this site as a whole this year. I hope that any hip hop reviews that are written by contributors are actually responded to by the people upset in this thread. I hope more people actually make threads and try to promote hip hop records instead of designating a few posts about it to the hip hop thread and having that be that.

 

Only requoting cause I’m not sure if you saw my edited addition to that post. the rest doesn’t really require a response, just want you to see it.

 

I'll add to this: support the writers that do write about the kind of music you'd like to see more of, vocally and with commentary on their writing. How many of the reviews that were written about hip-hop went unattended and relatively ignored over the past year or so? Quite a few, and that's a good reason they stopped writing and contributing.

 

Per usual, you beat me to this point and expressed it in a much better way. R fucking T

 

There’s a lot to unpack here and honestly I don’t have the spoons rn but I will just say this-
I reject the implication by you or anyone else that says that if we critique something we have to offer something else positive in its place.
im not a music reviewer or promoter. That’s literally not my job. I don’t claim to be good at it. But I can call out problematic things that music reviewers do??
I shouldn’t have to do double the work (promoting albums, making threads, etc) for people who can’t do their jobs well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

like the whole “I hope the people upset here even bother to respond to reviews written” fuck off I don’t respond to any reviews of any genre, that doesn’t mean my critique isn’t valid?

also there, I said fuck off, so I guess that’s my warning.

 

I legitimately don't know what is controversial about saying "promote albums you like", but okay.

 

Ok, I don't see the hypocrisy in saying someone's past behavior colors how we see them in the present. This seems reasonable and rational to me.

 

nothing is controversial about that standalone statement. But being used to dismiss valid critiques?! Wack.

Omg yes please mansplain this site to me