Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Zack Snyder, March 25th, 2016) Movie • Page 12

I really doubt I'm going to be angry about this movie, but we'll see. I expect to like it moderately.

Anyway, I need Supergirl to come to Netflix

 

Might not happen. CBS wants to pull all of their shows from Netflix for their own app. That will include all CW shows.

 

It's not perfect by any means, but now that its found its footing it's great.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Hope they don't expect people to pay premium prices for two channels

 

I gotta get to bed soon for work tomorrow. I'll post some thoughts later on.
But I didn't hate it. I didn't love it.

the fact that Bats killed didn't bother me (Alfred's line about men turning cruel explains it, quickly) , but his use of guns so often did. Why would someone who's life got destroyed by a gun use one So often? Just seems odd to me. But this is also ingrained in my brain from the animated series. And when he uses one in the first episode of Batman Beyond and it's what causes him to retire. Batman and guns will always be weird to me because of those series.

I liked a lot of parts of this. And I guess that's my biggest problem overall. It feels like a lot of parts put together and chunks are "missing". Or rushed through and skipped. There is very little time for things to breathe in a movie where the first action scene doesn't really happen until an hour in and lasts only a couple minutes.

need to think about this more.

 

The Lego Batman trailer was amazing

 

We didn't get it. I got Tarzan, Suicide Squad, Civil War, TMNT2, Civil War (yep, again somehow), and the. Apocalypse. I think that's it.

 

This movie touches on a lot of interesting ideas and some promising stuff. It doesn't explore any of it and it's wildly inconsistent thematically and in its characterization. Lots of great scenes that as a whole don't connect in any way except on a surface plot level. Snyder's superhero action is amazing. It all looks incredible. Ben Affleck has potential to be the best cinematic Batman.

Disappointed with Wonder Woman. She's fine, but she's barely a character. She stands around looking at stuff and has a short scene of dialogue with Bruce in the middle of the movie, but her intersection with the actual rest of the movie is paper thin. She's not delved into at all. Still excited for her movie, she just doesn't have a meaningful place in this one.

I liked seeing Superman actually help people. I didn't like that in response to the suicide bombing that kills a bunch of people and leaves people more mistrustful of Superman than ever, that he just disappears for awhile. That's probably the exact opposite thing he should do, and when the movie emphasizes how much people hate Superman in the aftermath of that bombing, and then shows the world uniting in mourning and reverence for him after his death, it's a disconnect. The Doomsday battle wasn't enough to earn that trust back, or at least didn't execute it onscreen, because few people really knew what was going on, and Superman's smaller, personal acts should have weighed more in the finale. Instead you leave people hating Superman and then show them loving him without a solid reason to have that shift.
The characterization is a mess. I might get into it more later if I write a letterboxd review, but man trying to follow thematic arcs through Batman and Superman is just exhausting.

The movie is likable enough but if you try to engage with it seriously, it does not hold up at all. I liked it around as much as I liked the Force Awakens, which I enjoyed but had pretty deep seated issues with. I had fun watching it in the theater even when some stuff really bothered me.

I got goosebumps seeing Cyborg, funnily enough. I loved Teen Titans as a kid and in the comics he's a Detroit superhero so I like that prospect. Aquaman looked awesome as well. I hope they take Snyder off Justice League. That movie really needs a solid creative team to salvage two bad and inconsistent entries into the live action DCU so far.

Lego Batman trailer was a personal highlight

 

Haha Civil War twice? That's bizarre.

We got Ghostbusters, some Mark Wahlberg oil movie by Peter Berg, a Matthew McConaughey Civil War (historical, not Marvel) movie, Lego Batman, and X-Men Apocalypse.

 

I don't agree with the whole piece but it does contextualize Superman's instances of killing in the comics and why Man of Steel doesn't fit those established scenarios.

 

This should be pretty spoiler free ...

Ok, at the end of it this movie is flawed, greatly. From a narration standpoint it tries to do too much without firmly planting motives the audience can latch onto, the dialog is bad, the structure edited strangely, and there's too much crammed in when it could have been stripped to make much more sense (it's another movie that I think will make more sense with the next two and I think that's a big issue). If this were a graphic novel I'd read it and be like "eh ok not the worst story I've ever read" and hope the art was really good. Kinda how I came down on Avengers 2. But with Avengers 2 I liked what I saw because it was just fun to see the characters on the screen doing stuff. It felt familiar in the way you come back to a sitcom you like. That didn't exist here, but what did make up for that ... was downright some of the best action sequences I've seen and the best Batman we've had in costume.

I think people get attached to their "version" of a character -- usually the one they started reading or watching (not unlike an album or band) -- and see that as the only way that character can or should be. I started reading my dads comics and then found my own and now see comic characters like legends - they change, they morph, they are the myths of our age. What you get on one outing may not be what you wanted or expected (I've read so many handlings of Batman at this point I've had to learn to adjust expectations of each cowl), but I find it worth exploring what that particular story is and how I feel. What Batman does from one writer doesn't always mesh with my personal love of the character. But the why is so important and I find so much fun to think about. I thought Ben was fantastic in both Bruce and Bats. His style was perfect, his command on point. I loved his Batman. Is it the same as TAS Bat? Or Bale? Or the three dozen comic versions I've seen in some form or another? No. But there's parts there and there's new things for me to fall in love with, or debate, or wrestle with. The inner turmoil and feeling the anger and edge of giving up resonated. Well done Ben. Gimme that solo film.

The directing was what I expected. It feels shallow. It shows. It's missing care.

But the movie wasn't by any means the worst thing I've ever seen. It's not great. It's not gonna end up on a favorites list, but I'll see it again. I'll rewind WW scenes multiple times and cheer. I'll watch specific action scenes quite a bit. I'll look and search for things I missed and how they play into future installments. It's no Fantastic Four. It's not even Thor 2 to me. It's a flawed movie that I hoped was amazing and wasn't. It's ok pizza that you eat again in the morning and wish it tasted a little better. It felt rushed, it showed, and I think they need to stop using Goyer more than they need to ditch Snyder - but I'm ok ditching both. He's half a good director, but that second half is so important. He takes risks others wouldn't, which I like, but man, he also just doesn't get how to inspire joy, wonder, and awe.

There's a better edit in this movie, I feel like any of us could have sat down and fixed it before filming or even in post. But alas.

I am really into what we saw of Ezra as Flash. Ditto for Cyborg. Godot was commanding and more than held her own, so add me to the excited about all these characters in future movies list.

There's a level of undeserved anger toward the movie that still feels weirdly placed. Like it is now a game to one up how awful someone can call the movie and score points from the hyperbole genie. It doesn't deserve that. There's enough good here to not need to make it seem like it's ruined the world. I liked it more than Superman Returns (another movie I own) and don't think this at all ruins the idea of Justice League or what can come next. It bothers me most that I feel like there's something here that could be good, or better, or dealt with in little ways that make bigger differences. But there's still good moments. Still some good performances. I still got that pretty art.

I was wrong about Eisenberg. Thought he'd be great, love him, thought he was off and wrong for Lex. I've still never loved an on screen Lex as much as Smallvilles, so it didn't bug me that much (didn't like Spacey or Hackman either tbh), but I was totally wrong in thinking he'd nail it.

I wanted more. I went in to Deadpool with raised expectations and enjoyed that movie a whole lot. Good action, good humor, weak villain, weak third act, thin plot, and still enjoyed it a lot. I went in here thinking this would be the worst movie ever. I enjoyed it though. Good action, weak plot, too much going on, but I still found things that grabbed me. I still want to see it again, to play the music again, to watch certain scenes and look at the scenery, colors, and tapestry ... and I still really want someone else to write and direct these actors in the next installments. I like Henry. I like Ben. They're good. The costumes are good. The way they play the characters are good. It's so close. But also just too far.

 

This was better than I expected.

Wonder Woman in action was too cool for the little bit she was in.

Batman rescuing Martha Kent was the best action sequence with the character to ever play on the big screen.

Bruce in the city during MoS was genuinely effective.

I'll give more later.

 

this actually has me quite excited hahah

 

lol. I will say that I have a lot of complaints I saved for later. For example, the pacing reminded me of ASM2.

Also, if you're the kind of person this matters to, the Batman scene I praised is the one from the beginning of that one trailer. Obviously it's longer and cooler in the context of the film, but I don't want you thinking it's something totally out of the blue.

However, I liked it more than MoS after fearing at one point that I'd like it so little I'd skip out on JL in theaters. With the right expectations, there's a lot to love.

 

i liked asm2 to be fair. a lot of problems but i liked it.

 

I'm not sure why Snyder thinks that a three hour version of this is something people will enjoy. I might download it later to see what they cut, but I'm not sure it will help me enjoy it more. It just felt so overstuffed in the format we got.

Luthor was the one thing I really dug.

 

I'm at work so I don't have time to reply in many specifics, but I agree with you overall.

I can't wait to see Ben in the solo Batman film. Also super pumped for Wonder Woman. I'll try to reply more later.

 

I'm seeing this at 12:30 today. I don't really have much expectation of it, but I hope to at least enjoy it for what it is. I've never been a Superman fan, so I hope Affleck is at least a decent Bruce Wayne/Batman.

 

Luthor's plan to release Doomsday is hilarious. If Doomsday killed Superman and Batman, what was the next step? He had no kryptonite, how would he then stop Doomsday after Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman were gone? He can't, haha. Doomsday would just keep on destroying the world.

A more interesting Luthor plan would be if he wanted to recreate the Zod/Superman battle from MoS to turn the public against Superman, and then intervene with kryptonite weapons to be seen as the hero who actually saved Metropolis, while painting Superman as a menace who's battles cause chaos and destruction. What's frustrating is all the elements for that plot are there in the movie, the movie just takes the dumb route it did take.

Also: Superman should have died protecting actual, physical civilians. The whole Doomsday battle should have mirrored the Man of Steel battle, since it is Superman vs. Zod again, but this time, Superman should have been shown actively helping people and diverting the battle away from populated areas, because then he'd be showing the people of Metropolis (and us, the audience) that he's now been Superman for a year, he's learned, he's grown. His ultimate sacrifice should have been coming between Doomsday and innocent civilians, so they actually see his efforts. Then it makes a lot more sense that the whole world mourns and reveres him in death, since the last we saw public opinion of Superman was that he was widely hated.

 

I was watching a review for this where they talked about doing Riddler in an Arkham City/Saw type story. I'd love that.

 

Haha jealous of all of you that have seen it. So ready for tonight.

 

Also, this seemed appropriate given the previous discussion.

 

I agree with all of this. It was really funny how many times in the film they used one line of dialog to make something okay.

- Alfred's line about seeing dark things changing a person's ideas on death.
- Batman saying the area of the docks was abandoned.
- The line about people dying in that African town and how it painted Supes as a bad guy.

There just seemed to be a lot of lazy storytelling bits.

The part in the chase scene where the batmobile doesn't destroy the tracker had me rolling my eyes so hard. That whole scene was probably the most counter-Bats scene in the whole film. It's the kind of stuff any other version of Bruce would be calling someone reckless. I could see that same scene with Bruce in Alfred's spot and Damien or Todd being in the driver's seat with Bruce flipping shit.

 

Looking like a strong start at the Box Office. Deadline also has a good write-up.

 

@Nick, I liked it, too. If its flaws didn't ruin the viewing experience for you there, I doubt this one's will, but obviously these are pretty different films.

@Jason Tate, I think it's hilarious that we've represented opposite opinions for about a solid year, and yet our final opinions of the film are pretty close. Like, I'm sure you liked it more than I did, and I'm sure we disagree on a lot of details, but somehow we both landed in the same "flawed but enjoyable" territory, where I thought we'd be warring extremes.

@Henry, I wonder if this'll be like ASM2, where I want the film to be shorter but still have deleted scenes I'd include in addition to all that I'd remove. In that sense, I'm interested in the rest of the pieces that will be in that thing. I definitely doubt that merely making it longer would improve it, though, lol, even if the new scenes are all great.