Accountability in Music • Page 240

I think this is a really great point. I sometimes feel like a really hard line is drawn for people being "adults" at age 18 even though at that age most people are still in a high school setting where 90% of their interactions are with other high school kids. I'm not necessarily saying that's wrong, I just think it's a grey area. I don't really know anything about this band or situation specifically, but it does seem like throwing people in these "redeemable" or "cancelled" categories without discussing the grey areas is going to cause more problems down the line.

 

Ya 18-13 is definitely "cancel-worthy" but 17-14 is just super sketchy but I guess you can't judge unless you know what the relationship was? I remember being 13-14 and the people I knew who were dating guys 18-20 were exclusively dating losers, so my personal bias leads me to think that even that is sketchy/makes listening to the band a little awkward.

Was this a long time ago? Is buddy still dating young girls? I have no idea how old HM currently is so if everyone he's been with since is of a reasonable age, it would be better (I think?) than if he had a "thing" for girls in high school.

 

From what I can gather he has a long term girlfriend (4ish year long relationship) currently who is his age, and the high school relationship in question would have been about six years ago, before the band started. Could be wrong because all this shit is like fifth hand

 

I also have this bias because I dated a lot of older losers lol. But I would feel really weird if anyone started trying to "cancel" some musicians I dated when I was 14 years later and like brought my name into it without me being apart of the conversation.

 

For context - Chris is 22. Hot Mulligan hadn't even released music when they started dating.

Let's keep in mind, 18 or 17 he was still in High School. I'm currently 18 and a senior and my parents still control my life for the most part. This isn't "cancelled" and it honestly distracts from more serious abuse in the scene.

 

It’s super sketchy but it’s the kind of super sketchy behavior like 90% of teenage boys engage in. If he gets that and has rectified it, fine. I have roughly one million mutual friends with this band, so I am trying to track down info that isn’t like, seventh hand.

 

This is how I feel abt it, having also been a 14/15 year old who dated older guys.

 

I was 15 and spent a lot of time with a senior who was 17/18 during that period and I'd feel awful if someone 'cancelled' her or looked back on her as being predatory. I've honestly never thought about whether it was or not until right now, but it's all positive memories so I don't know. It's anecdotal I guess.

 

Yeah they’re posting her private IG and shit

 

Honestly very glad this discussion is happening. As a HUGE fan of this band, it's a very odd situation to navigate.

 

It will always be grey because it is impossible for power dynamics to be equal in any situation. Any gap in age opens up for manipulation and abuse but it doesn’t mean it’s inherently happening. Especially in teen years when people are honestly developing at different rates. There’s no way to draw a hard line in the sand as something being indicative of a healthy and nontoxic relationship.

When I think back, it was normalized because were told girls mature faster (and yeah, it sure felt like it!). But at the same time it was always a stereotype that older guys only wanted younger girls Bc they were naive and innocent. Which is obviously predatory and problematic.
But like Kayla said...90% of teen boys perpetuate that.
We can talk about how it’s problematic and why without it being to point at one specific person to cancel them.

 

Exactly. Plus, I feel like it entirely removes the agency of younger people who are legitimately capable of making decision for themselves. The possibility of abuse/manipulation does not always mean it happened and calling someone who doesn’t consider themselves a victim is weird as hell.

As always, probably best to wait and hear from the person who experienced it and not people on twitter who aren’t connected to the situation in any way.

 

Obviously if something bad went down I'm not in favor of hiding evidence or anything, but like I would be so furious and uncomfortable if that was me. Real glad any sketchy communications I ever had with any dudes in the "scene" are dead somewhere on a sidekick phone or the graveyard of AIM. I feel bad for young girls in the age of instagram and shit like that. Seems rough.

 

100% this, to an extent. Obviously it gets grey AGAIN when you factor in grooming. Girls that have been groomed might not see anything wrong but that doesn’t mean it’s not problematic and predatory. (Extreme example but, ie woody Allen/soon yi)

That’s why it’s important to examine things and talk about them but not through the lens of “cancel them or not!?!” (In my opinion)

Edited to add: just agree a lot about not assigning experiences / identities (victim etc) to people who have not expressed it

 

That's another thing too- we graduate HS here at 16-17, so if you're 18 dating a high schooler, you're literally a grown man going out of his way to frequent HSs which is way creepier. I guess you guys do 12th grade in the states so it's a "bit" more normal.

 

love weaponized call out culture that doesn't even *pretend* to be doing this for the "victim"'s well being!!

 

that’s what’s been a weird gray area to me. In HS, it wasn’t common but there were definitely several senior/freshman relationships and at the time, it doesn’t seem that inappropriate. But then if they stay together, you’ll have a 22 year old dating a high schooler and that seems weird to me now.

 

I also feel like I've either forgotten or just never realized that sometimes high school "relationships" are fairly innocent. Like I felt like everyone was hooking up constantly when I was in high school and then years later have had people tell me stuff like "Yeah we dated those two years, but we never did anything further than making out in someone's car." I could see how from the outside cases like that would maybe look like statutory rape even if it wasn't accurate. Obviously that's like anecdotal, but it's just another reason why bringing up situations like this without a person involved making an accusation seems to not be the best way to deal with this stuff.

 

17 and 14 is still weird as HELL to me, but it's very different from 18 and 13 because... y'all, have you SPOKEN to a 13 year old? So it would be nice if the band could shed some light there because it's an important detail.

Here's my takeaway: I have no horse in this race. I have never listened to HM, but am also completely frustrated with the discourse I'm seeing from my friends who are friends with or just really into them point blank, knee jerk chalking this conversation up to "cancel culture" because IF this was an 18 and 13 year old, we would need to verify that and have a serious conversation, regardless of who is friends with this guy.

But moreover, if we're going to extend the latitude of "18 really isn't that old or mature so let's be lenient" - which I don't disagree with, in principle - then I expect to never hear "but she said she was 18" again when a full fledged adult hooks up with a child. I'm not interested in picking and choosing when 18 counts to protect people who mess up.

That last bit has to do with inconsistency, and not HM of course. But I said what I said.

 

Glad he cleared it up.

But it bears saying, I REALLY hate that last sentence for reasons that have nothing to do with this individual personally, but just because I'm very aware of how many shall we say, less privileged people are sitting in jail cells for things they did as teens, and if it HAD been an-adult-dates-a-child situation, the fact that he's older now would matter exactly zero percent.

But overall, I'm chilling. That wording just grinds my gears.

 

17 and 14 IS weird when you're a teenager. The age difference is gigantic when you're that young.

I remember being chased by a 14 year-old girl and wanting absolutely nothing to do with her. She was a baby, for real. One of my school buddies at the time did date a 13 year old when he was 17 and it creeped me out back then.

In retrospect, a 17 year-old is still a kid who hasn't fully matured and I don't feel the same way about that topic anymore. I wouldn't crucify this dude unless he was abusive.

 

Just wish every guy responding to assault allegations would leave out "I'm a good person" or "I'm not a bad person" or "I'm a good guy" or whatever form of that from their statement because it has absolutely nothing to do -ever- with whether or not someone has been predatory in some way.

I don't have much to say on this situation but it will always rub me the wrong way when that type of rhetoric is thrown in there.

 

That too.

 

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