2019-2020 NFL Season Thread [ARCHIVED] Football • Page 272

It is a discussion actually, it's not a discussion to you because nobody agrees with you

 

I need to see the contract to see how I feel about this.

 

When 90% of my statements are literally being ignored by most everyone, it's not a discussion.

 

I am so sorry

 

Nobody was ingnoring them.....

 

My neighbor whom is 81 years old is a die hard Browns fan. We sat on his porch today and talked everything Browns it was pretty fun.

 

Re-read the last few pages. Pretty much every player I brought up that he acquired was ignored and they specifically stated that they are ignoring them and the only reason was "anyone would have drafted them" or something similar, which isn't a valid reason to ignore them.

If you wanted to discuss something about Wentz and I said to ignore all of his positive qualities and focus on only the negatives, I would rightly be accused of being biased and purposefully ignorant.

 

John Elway may have saved his career in 2018. The Broncos had one of the best drafts. Before that, hot garbage. Peyton went there on his own accord. If elway could actually evaluate Qb talent he wouldn't have consistently missed in the draft and would've been able to bring in someone like Kirk Cousins instead of Case keenum and then trading for Joe Flacco.

 

no offense to you @Dinosaurs Dish but sometimes you are hard to debate because you basically never come off your opinion

 

But those were valid reasons, you just don't like when people don't agree with you. You take shit a little to personal here.

 

Do you think Kirk would have really succeeded in Denver considering he didn't play all that great in Minny this past season ?

 

I'm still waiting on anyone to explain how totally ignoring all the positive things someone did is good logic. If someone can do that, I'm all ears.

 

Denver dodged a bullet on Kirk as well

 

dude no one ignored it

I don't think anyone ever explicitly said "ELWAY FUCKING SUCKS HE SHOULDN'T EVER HAVE HAD A JOB!" or anything like that

however, he has been abhorrent for like 4 years now. Plenty of GMs around the league get fired for way less than that.

 

Nobody is ignoring that. I've highlighted on the positives he's done. It's not being ignored. His awful decisions over the years have overshadowed his good ones.

 

If it weren't for Peyton Manning or that defense I don't think Elway would have had any success.

 

And as noted before Elway definitely lucked into getting Manning.

 

My original statement was:

And y'all kept saying that he was lucky or inherited a good roster or that the team was good in spite of Elway, etc...

But then I list a dozen players he acquired personally, as well as coaching and coordinators, then y'all say "okay well, other than those guys what has he done?" which makes zero sense.

Peyton and that defense does not happen without Elway.

 

It would be like looking at the Eagles and saying "Well, other than trading up to get Wentz and hiring Pederson and build one of the best offensive lines and have some of the best depth in the league and winning the Super Bowl, what has Howie really done? He's just lucky."

Of course that would be absurd to think.

 

You know, Hitler was pretty bad, but he really wanted his people to be healthy by encouraging no drinking/smoking and a veggie-friendly diet.

 

As someone said before, I think you are giving Elway more credit than he truly deserves. Manning is definitely what drew all of those players there, not Elway’s GM “abilities”. If Peyton doesn’t get released by the Colts, the Broncos don’t sign those players imo. Yeah he got them to come there but did HE really get them to come there?

We all say it is more Manning, you don’t agree, which is cool. But you are saying everyone else is dismissing stuff, whereas as far as I can tell, you have dismissed the notion that Manning was the main reason those people signed with Denver. I might have missed it cause it was a lot to read through though.

You think those people still sign with an Elway/Osweiler combo? No way

Did Elway do good things? Yeah, he signed Manning. Without the luck of Manning getting hurt and released, that doesn’t happen and he is fired after like two or three years because we have seen the results of what has happened post-Manning and have a good gauge of Elway’s true quality.

I think the most honest way to look at this is “would I want him as GM for my team”? To me that is an unequivocal no

 

This is a bad example, two different situations.

 

Thanks for spelling it out that way @Zach

I agree that Manning was the catalyst that led to all the success of those first five years and I don't think I've said or implied that Elway could have done it without Manning. But a GMs job is to acquire talent in any way they can, drafting or free agency, to make a team a better destination for other great player and coaches. And getting Manning to come there over the handful of other teams that were vying for him was obviously a great move and he should be commended for it.

We watched Peyton play for 15+ years and he's "only" won 2 rings, so it's clear that it takes a full team to win it all and Elway was instrumental in evaluating and bringing in players and coaches to get the team to where they went twice.

I already said that he hasn't been good the last few years and I agree that I wouldn't want him as our GM currently, but to chalk up those five years to luck or that they won in spite of him is way too much of a knee jerk or overreaction to a few bad years.

 

Did they? They paid Case Keenum $22mil for basically be Blake Bortles statistically. Even the Jaguars didnt pay Bortles that much. And now they've gone and got Joe Flacco, who's a rich man's Bortles in the sense that he's literally been paid more, but hasnt actually been much better since 2014.

Kirk Cousins may be overpaid, but he still did 30TD/10INT....not the 18/15 of Keenum of the normal 20/15 of Flacco.

 

What I can’t believe the New York media would ever paint someone as a bad guy!