Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History in Orlando • Page 6

Yeah that's not the same at all mate. I mean, are you for real? You know that guns and religion are like, not comparable things, right?

Also, you probably need to understand what the term "isolated incident" means.

Honestly that's probably the stupidest fucking post I've read on here. Jesus.

 

Also, I completely appreciate the contradictions of my last two posts. I just can't read posts on these sorts of threads on here/AP without getting pissed off. It's so, so frustrating.

 

I like how mass shootings are isolated incidents, but terror attacks by Muslims, of which, compared to mass shootings, there have been relatively few, are grounds to be racist as hell

 

I like how it's important to psychoanalyze a mass shooter to the point of digging up their childhood, but when it's a terror attack by a Muslim w can elk "reformation needs to happen!!" And ignore the environment that breeds radicals

 

Tbh I think it eases people's mind and makes them feel less powerless to say they have a gun and people trained and something can be done to prevent it but honestly imo it wouldn't do much if anything and would have greater odds of making it worse so imo it's not part of the solution and that'd be a lot of money spent on firearms and training people. Bringing more guns can bring more violence and the ideal situation doesn't seem probable to me. I imagine more clubs and venues are going to start screening harder after this and grimme tho. I've been patted down once at a smaller venue and never have to go through metal detectors or a wand. I feel like that's gonna change soon.

 

This stuff is the reason refugees want to flee the Middle East.

Kinda makes you think.

 

Shootings and terror attacks aside: It is absolutely fucking terrifying to be gay in a primarily Muslim country.

 

Not to start a different argument, but African Americans get it pretty bad in America. Longer Prison sentences, unarmed killings by law enforcement, false arrests/wrongly accused and sentencing, and prison without conviction. Just think we should look into that as well as gun control...

 

I tried watching Anderson Cooper's tribute and I couldn't make it without pausing every few seconds. Between Anderson getting emotional and all those Latino victims I can't. It is probably super weird and corny but I'm so glad Ricky Martin exists. He's such an inspiration and his tweets just make me so happy to see a Latino gay man be so successful and use his international platform for such positivity. It's just not fair. Everyone should be able to feel safe.

 

I cannot even bring myself to discuss your countries baffling attitudes towards guns (or the amendment you refuse to amend) so i'll just ask this - Are there ever any mass protests about gun-related stuff like this? For every other social issue there appears to be at least some groups that organise marches etc. - is this ever done when mass shootings occur?

 

So while we are focused on a radicalized individual, can we talk about West Boro Baptist church (christian affiliation) or how about the fact that white supremacist groups (christian affiliated) are protected religious communities. We allow hatred to openly exist only to be shocked, confused, angry, upset, and distraught when that hatred turns to violence.

We are 3 days away from the anniversary of the Charleston shooting.

Then of course we have individuals who don't know how to deal with their anger and frustration in non destructive ways without the religious backing which is chalked up to mental illness.

We are a little over a month away from the anniversary of the Aurora, Co shooting.

While guns are a large part of the equation and a solution is needed, I'm more interested in the conversation of how do we reduce violent actions by crazy people or are we only capable of trying to limit the materials in which they might have access to which can inflict the most damage?

 

I'm glad you brought up Westboro Baptist Church. For as bad a reputation that they have, WBC does not resort to violence. They use freedom of speech to its full boundaries, but rarely break the law. And to be honest, they are far from an organization. It's largely a family with a handful of converts that make up the WBC. They have no political power or cultural sway. As a culture, we've marginalized the WBC, and rightfully so. If they are the American Christian example of dangerous anti-gay ideology, they pale in comparison to radical Muslims. There is a knee jerk reaction by many, especially non religious, to equate different religious institutions and ideologies. The WBC's views on gays is pretty close to that of radical Muslims, yet they don't feel called to murder them and view God as the one who will eventually punish them. Worldwide, I'd say that most Muslims have unfavorable views of gays but believe Allah to be the one who dishes out punishment. If you look at polling, the Muslims who have the least hatred towards gay people reside in Christian/post-Christian nations.

 

Aaaaaaaaand in my country (Australia) we made guns extremely hard to obtain after a horrific mass shooting in the 90's. Guess how many we've had since then?

Shockingly, only 2. Obviously limiting or banning guns won't stop it outright. But clear evidence exists that it helps.

 

Oh hooray!

I guess the decades of police brutality against my community, the countless cases of ignored assaults and violence by the system twards women and queer folk and the continued marginalization in every day life that our groups face are all now magically washed away because we aren't getting beheaded publicly for being alive!

That's some nice privilege ya got there...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

 

Can confirm. Growing up in Abu Dhabi while trying to make sense of my queerness was... not fun.

Though if I'm being honest, the worst abuse and bullying I got was from the straight white British boys at my school. I barely remember the Muslim/Emirati kids giving me any shit about that stuff. Guess it's not really their problem unless you're part of their community.

 

I come from the distinct held true beliefs that the 2nd amendment does not grant every right to a citizen owning a gun. It was a stipulation in the Bill of Rights to allow the citizens to rise up in defense of a tyrannical government, a sentiment I still think should held (still, good luck against the strongest military in the world). Gun culture and gun ownership for some is the backbone of their existence; which is not healthy. I have shot firearms, I have friends that are gun owners, but no one should think or should we be toting guns as a right.

Many different solutions have been spouted and consistently discussed. We have gun control, banning the sale of certain types of weapons. Probably a start, but still if anyone wants to purchase a weapon of war, a few hundred dollars and knowing someone - that individual can obtain it. I cannot say banning certain types of weapons would have a huge effect, but maybe it would be a start. Buyback programs; I like this idea because I know of people who have arsenals of guns that they have bought and no longer use. They do not want them kicking around but are afraid to "dispose" of them, nor have the time to sell / market their firearms. Special incentives like community dinners can help bring neighborhoods together, talk about the issues surrounding their town. I like this coming together, can help get to know people. I cannot say buyback programs would have a huge effect, but maybe it would be a start. Licenses. And this one is my own personal program of choice. We make gun ownership like driving a car. You take the necessary safety course, it delves into a background check not allowing violent past offenders the license. You maintain it, police can enforce it. When you purchase a firearm, it is registered to your license. When you sell a firearm, you can transfer the license. If your gun is stolen, you can report it. If you gun is used (not by you) to commit a crime, they know who to come to. This one is number one with a bullet (literally) on the NRAs no list. Because they are frightened this registry will be the printout needed to come for your guns. Well, if the NRA followed the true meaning of the 2nd amendment, they can rise up if it would come to that.

Interesting about police as well, I do not think police officers should have access to these weapons either. Nothing makes them a special case, they are citizens too.

I think the United States is a smart nation and I will be the first to admit I do not know what to do with this menace. I know more guns isn't the solution. Arming yourself to the teeth isn't the answer. But simply doing nothing, like time and time again, will result in more bloodshed. Is it sad that I notice when the flag is at full staff now, not when its at half?

 

The strongest military in the world couldn't conquer the Vietnamese. I agree weapons are necessary to keep the government in check--whether or not you think it's futile. Again, the Vietnamese. But maybe we don't give it away so easily. It's harder to get a drivers license, get into college, buy a house, or rent an apartment than it is to buy a gun.

 

It only takes 1 individual from that group who feels so marginalized that they need to get their message out and commit an heinous act. With that level of hatred and that much motivation to go out and seek individuals that they hate, many experts would consider that a ticking time bomb.

My issue wasn't with Muslims, but instead the groups that are protected by freedom rights despite extremely hateful and messages filled with bigotry and then are stunned when an individual from that walk of life decides that violence is the answer.

 

It's possible that one day, a WBC member will get so upset that they'll resort to violence. But as of today, the group is not violent and they are not currently a threat to citizens.

The question I have: is radical Islam a logical reading of Islamic scripture? The American Muslims I have interacted with have argued to me that the radicals are not basing their anti-West, anti-gay, anti-Jew beliefs on the teachings of Mohammed. I've seen verses that support this claim, and verses that dispute it. American Muslims are perhaps the most tolerant group of any Muslims in the world. Is that a product of proper interpretation of scripture or a product of living in a more tolerant society? I'd say the latter. I think Islam needs a reformation. Many of its values are not compatible with 21st century life. Christianity had the luxury of living side by side with the West as it evolved. In many ways, it shaped the West into what it is today.

 

verbal violence and verbal assault are now easier to prosecute thanks to much to the anti-bullying movement. When it comes to WBC, I'm actually more concerned for their safety. To verbally attack and verbally assault distraught family members in a time when they are grieving, it's amazing that nothing significant has happened yet.

As far as radical Islam and logical readings, that's all a matter of interpretation. The planned parenthood shooting was done by a radical Christian sympathizer. Islam and Christianity are the two leading religions of the world, neither of their holy books fully fit into the modern day westernized logic. Most holy books were written in a time when there were only roughly 500 million people on the entire planet so the logic to make sure their culture was preserved and had the greatest chance of spreading hasn't changed mightily in the 1500 some odd years give or take a few hundred years since they were both written. Society in that same time span has also become collectively smarter, Salem witch trials were roughly 320 year ago, exorcism's are still practiced today, what was once held true 1500 years ago doesn't have the same weight today because of advancement in science, knowledge, and safer more practical practices while at the same time understanding different afflictions individuals might suffer from. In a way society has become more tolerant, but only because of the knowledge that has been gained to show that certain things are not as dangerous and harmful as original thought.

While Islam needs a reformation, most major religions need to as well. Muslims and Islam is very much an unknown entity in America and everyone's first thoughts are usually the terrorist acts. Bring up Christianity and people will probably bring up the holidays, Jesus, or their school experience. More than 70% of Americans identify as Christian where roughly 1% identify with the Muslim faith. There are bibles in every hotel room and more flavors of Christianity in this nation then there are flavors of ice cream at a Cold Stone Creamery. Christianity is like the Flu where Islam is like Ebola, from most american's standpoint, Ebola is from a different country and is a terrifying killer that must be stopped at all costs! Yet the flu is a season thing that there are vaccines for which people will often ignore and the flu will kill more people and people really just shrug their shoulders at it. They both are illnesses, but one is deemed far worse because it's not as popular or as well known. (I'm aware Ebola is 100x worse than the flu with a significantly higher mortality rate.)

The youth today will know Muslims as being terrorists as it was Muslims that committed 9/11, this shooting, that we went to war against Al Qaeda, killed a Muslim dictator (Hussein), finally killed Bin Laden. The major news stories surrounding the Muslim religion all focus on only the negative and radicalized individuals and not the collective group. Imagine if anytime the term "Christian" was mentioned the first things people associated that religion with were lynchings, bombings of multiple place, flying a plane into the IRS building, hate crimes of multiple varieties and the media propagandized all those events anytime a negative Christian thing happened.

To answer your question more directly, yes, radicalized individuals have a logical interpretation of the religious scripture that they are reading but they don't have a logical grasp on the social rules of society. It's fully acceptable and allowable to hate individuals for who they are, who they love, or how they live and condemn their lifestyles but the idea of intentionally hurting those individuals is becoming more of a logical wrong doing. Which, might seem odd, but is a relatively new concept.

 

Christian preacher sparks outrage after praising Orlando shooting

 

Man, I wish I could literally hug this. Very well written, hats off to you.

 

Wholeheartedly disagree with you on that. Islam is the only major religion in its current form that is incompatible with the 21st century west. The main complaint about Christian-LGBT relations today is wedding cakes and public restrooms. Again, like I mentioned before, the safest places in the world for LGBT people are in Christian/post-Christian nations. The least safe places? In Islamic nations. The moral equivalency argument that some make between Christianity and Islam in the 21st century have little basis in reality. While both have traditions of labeling homosexuality as sin, only one today have factions that believe a death sentence is the solution. The mainstream Christian viewpoint is that God will judge and punish homosexuals. One of the few places in the world where most Muslims believe that Allah will be the judge of homosexuals: United States. I would love if the rest of the Islamic world could be more like American Muslims. And I hope it happens.

 

Christian would kill LGTBAQI people if they could get away with it, don't delude yourself thinking that one religion is far worse than another in that department. It's almost as if you forgot just how bloodthirsty and violent Christianity actually is. I mean fuck, there are literally people in Africa, namely Uganda, murdering and raping gay people because Christians came to their country and taught them that. Get the fuck out of here with your bigotry, I suggest you either deal with the fact that you're being one and knock it off or just live life blissfully unaware that the side you're trying to defend is just as evil and nasty as the one you're trying to vilify.