The LGBTIQ Rights and Discussion Thread Social • Page 9

what does it take for someone to actually be deserving forgiveness after saying transphobic/homophobic things? was having the discussion about this band who was called out for saying some gross things, then apologized and said that they want to try and repair what they broke. what would this band have to do for you to feel comfortable with them in the future? curious to hear what trans/gay/queer people would say.

 

Idk it depends a lot. For me the biggest thing is change followed by action. If you use homophobic slurs but stop because I explain why that's harmful, that's good, that's change. But imo you are obliged to follow it with action, to actively work to offset not just the harm you've personally committed through apology or whatever but also improve conditions generally. Because otherwise it's always going to be on the queer community to police others and make sure they don't treat us like shit, when really it should be on all of us, allies included, to try to raise quality of life.

Same thing with feminism, racism, etc. You see this in Neo Nazis turned activists, some ex Red Pill folks, etc. Not only does that put some teeth into changing - I'm a lot more likely to believe you've changed when you stopped and when you've become a vocal ally - it also is the best way to pick up momentum with social equality and move forward.

How specifically this manifests, I'm not particular. Politicians have the largest onus, alongside religious figures, imo, because of their relevance to the issues and ability to influence legislation and large audiences. Going down to individual allies, it could be as simple as a supportive online presence, educating other allies, or visiting pride events.

 

QUEERS READ THIS

 

To speak specifically about the band, their online and tour appearance is probably their greatest asset. Senses Fail has built a great presence, and Speedy Ortiz has made clear statements about not tolerating discriminatory behavior at shows. Those mean a lot to people and make a difference.

 

For me, it's about backing an apology up with actions. As cliched as it is, they really do speak louder than words.

Also, ACTUALLY APOLOGISING. If an apology includes any kind of defense I will stop engaging. I don't care what fascinating logic the person has used to justify their behaviour, it's irrelevant.

And don't be a member of a pop punk band. If I'm allowed to be immaturely judgmental on at least one thing, it's that. I used to love the genre but I have no time for it anymore having seen so many of those manchildren be consistent dickheads and creeps.

To be clear though, I'm not saying no one should care or be impressed if some pop punk dude mends his shitty ways because there are of course still so many queer kids who love that music and more power to them, I'm just saying I will most likely never be at this point.

 

my own opinion (which doesn't matter as much, which is why i was open to shifting based on how other trans/gay/queer people answered) is that a simple one-time apology isn't enough to atone for a bunch of shitty actions, they need to do their best to keep the discussion going and continually accepting that they made mistakes, and doing their best to make change

 

I also think a key component of allyship - and of apologizing - is accepting that your apology is necessary even if it doesn't fix what's broken, and that for some people you'll never be in the "trustworthy" category. It's about accepting that these issues are bigger than you, and that some people may choose to protect themselves rather than give you the benefit of the doubt. That's the trade-off for the privileges you get by not being a member of the"othered" group. If your apology is sincere, you have to sometimes just take that hit and realize it isn't about you and is never going to be about you. Otherwise, your apology won't ring true.

IMO this is where Matt McGorry consistently goes so horribly wrong. If you require the people you're supposedly supporting to back everything you do or to give you cookies for being a decent human being in order to continue being decent... well, chances are you're really not that decent in the first damn place.

 

Oh, definitely. And it's a case by case scenario, some actions are forever unexcusable. The reason I asked is in scenarios where it's not as severe, what someone would have to do. And there's been a lot of great responses here

 

It's also so subjective, you know? Some people might see one thing as not a big deal, while for someone else it could be an unforgivable offense, and neither of those people would necessarily be wrong. Our experiences color how we see things. So it's just a really complex issue.

 

"My one gay friend doesn't find it offensive when I call him a f****t so you shouldn't too"


These sort of comments come to mind with that

 

Well, yes, but I was speaking in terms of specifically accepting apologies from people who are offering them. Which is why I think the focus ought to be on them actively trying to make it right as opposed to worrying about whether or not they can find someone to accept their apology. Actions speak so much louder and not everyone finds the same things equally troubling.

 

Aka Milo's piece de resistance

 

I agree, I was just giving an example of a situation where people don't find the same things troubling.

 

2 Marines Investigated For Posting Threat To Shoot Up Gay Bar After Orlando

 

Thought some folks here might appreciate this sweet story.

Her Grandson Was Killed In Orlando. What These Passengers Did On Her Flight to His Funeral? TEARS!

 

Why Black Lives Matter just pulled out of San Francisco Pride

 

What Is the Singular They, and Why Should I Use It?

 

but...but...grammar....tradition...blah blah blah

 

irony is next time someone says that you can point them to that article which is by grammarly and be like "now wot?"

 

has facebook's verb usage changed for anyone else who uses they pronouns? like "[name] are going" and "[name] like" instead of "[name] is going" or "[name] likes"? i'm paranoid this is inadvertently outing me to some of my transphobic friends bc the pronoun thing is otherwise lowkey

 

I know someone who uses "they" and the answer is yes. I'm sorry.

 

welp

 

Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people - CNN.com