Kanye West - ye & Kids See Ghosts (June 1 & 8 2018) Album • Page 239

I’m definitely not talking about his politics at this point, this whole series of rants seems really far from politics.

Related, I’m not liking the “he’s only saying all this trump shit cause he’s off his meds” takes I see every once in a while either. I got some issues with the way he’s talking about mental health right now, and I have a ton of issues with his poorly thought out politics, I do not think they are like tied together and one shouldn’t be used to excuse or explain the other.

 

But Kanye himself conflates his mental health with his atrocious politics, he does not separate backlash against his Trump/alt-right support from any other backlash he's ever received from any controversial thing he's ever done. I completely acknowledge this isn't an easy conversation, that this is a nuanced and complex individual who possesses absolute genius in some respects and is a complete absolute moron in most others, but while I am completely for him de-stigmatizing or working through his thought process on mental health however he sees fit, I do not trust that he is able to do so in a way that is free from the influence of the alt-right figureheads he has clearly found commonality with. So, yes, his politics do influence how I interpret the way he discusses mental health.

 

that’s not really my point but this thread has already been triggering enough, no need for me to keep putting myself through this

 

No one is invalidating anyone's experiences. Kanye isn't above criticism because he has mental health issues. He's a millionaire with access to the best mental healthcare professionals available, which is more than most people can say. There is absolutely no need for him to be tweeting in such a reckless manner and adding stigma to people who do depend on meds to get through the day.

However, I'm not going to repeat myself anymore so I'll check out of this thread for now too.

 

Having money doesn’t exempt you from struggling with mental health. That’s like saying you can’t be an alcoholic or drug addict if you have money because you can afford rehab. The same rehab programs that have zero standards for treatment.

 

That's not what I'm saying. He is in a more privileged position than people without money/healthcare, however.

 

But you’re insinuating that since he has that access he shouldn’t be struggling with it or bothering us with those same struggles. So I guess I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that his tweets are entirely unnecessary when he has so many other, healthier outlets he can use to work through his mental health issues. If there's a chance that he's gonna put off even 1 kid from seeking the help they need, then personally I'd say it's not worth him writing those tweets.

 

Why are you expecting someone openly talking about their mental health issues to say and do everything in the most perfect and logical manner? I saw someone going after Pete Davidson for those Instagram posts because he’s rich and can afford treatment. Well if you have mental health struggles and you’re rich you’re still affected by those problems. And I’m not making excuses for anything else Kanye has said, I hate him right now for all the shit he’s been doing this year. But when it comes to the discussions about his mental health, well those conversations are extremely distressing. Aren’t we supposed to be encouraging people to talk about it and as a society stop ignoring the problems and invite those struggling to share their experiences? But Kanye says something people don’t like to hear, people assume a whole bunch of stuff he didn’t even say, and you expect anyone else to be comfortable sharing their own struggles?

 

Okay, Kanye can say whatever he likes and has no responsibility at all to consider with his massive platform. If people are put off getting the help they need because of his tweets, who cares!!

 

thank you for addressing my points in a thoughtful and mature manner. really makes me feel great in a convo that I’ve already said is triggering for me

 

Ah yes, because you have never been condescending or rude on this site or ap.net

 

C'mon dude, you can't just write off paragraphs of personal experience with "hey you were rude once", what the fuck.

This is a complex scenario with a lot of multi-faceted issues and if you're not going to take the time to address the shit at length then just don't say anything.

 

you’re right, I have a troubled history here and I hate myself more than anybody else does, probably why I’ve chosen to self medicate and self harm so much. don’t know why you’d choose to bring that up but, if that’s how you want this conversation to go then so be it

 

I chose to bring it up because there are lots of times when your comments on here/ap.net have had a harmful effect on my mental health. But you didn't care then.

 

The first thing I posted in relation to this conversation was a tweet and instead of coming back to me and "taking the time to address the shit at length" he just said fuck this tweet so please don't come at me with the double standards

 

I am extremely, sincerely sorry for that. I’m sure you aren’t the only one either. Maybe everyone would be better off without me around

 

That's not the case at all, please don't think that's what I'm saying. I'm sorry too, I feel like this has all gotten out of hand. I'm going to bow out of this thread now as I don't want to cause anymore trouble.

 

I should have elaborated further. Reading someone say meds don’t sap creativity really set me off and I’ll explain why. I’ve been on Zoloft for a bit and my desire to make music has severely diminished. Over the summer I relapsed and found that using again made me want to create again. I recorded a whole EP during my two week run that I’ve since scrubbed from existence because I’m ashamed of how it came to be. Since getting clean again I’ve opened my music software 0 times in nearly five months. It’s a real thing that happens and to see someone say it doesn’t happen just because Kanye said it happened to him was pretty upsetting. I hope that explains a bit more why I reacted like that

 

I understand and I want to apologize again for anything in the past I’ve said that was harmful. And I hold no ill will toward you, it’s a hard convo with no right or wrong sides and it’s an emotional convo, not hard to understand why our emotions are controlling how we’re reacting to each other

 

I don't actually know what Kanye's condition is, but I do know that some mental health conditions have a negative effect on your decision making process, so even if he is making bad decisions regarding his outward communication of mental health, which I don't really think he is, then what exactly is the point of calling him out for it? Seems very unproductive from any angle. It feels to me like this caveat isn't considered enough in several discussions around Kanye.

 

it’s a tough line to walk because you can’t excuse his alt right associations because of his mental health but you’re right that judgement and decision making are impacted to a degree, that goes for pretty much any mental illness he may have (im not entirely sure what he’s diagnosed with, bi polar I think). but depression, anxiety, borderline personality, bipolar, etc, can all have a negative effect on your judgement and thought processes. that’s why I said you can’t really expect him to do and say everything perfectly and logically and take advantage of his position of privilege and use it for good. but having been there I know it’s hard to see everything clearly and snap decisions are made, tweets are fired off without much thought just to release what’s inside. at the same time like I said you can’t excuse the trump and candace stuff and while he’s clearly distancing himself from all that, without a real explanation and denouncement of those people I can’t back or defend Kanye. I actually hate this convo because it’s putting me in a position where I’m defending him wrt mental health but I don’t want to defend anything else about Kanye in 2018, at all

 

also if Kanye does come out and explicitly says don’t take meds as advice to people I will absolutely say fuck that and fuck him. I can see why people are getting that implication from his tweets, but from my experience I have to say I understand where he’s coming from, that’s all. If I was a professional musician or had a job in a creative field I couldn’t imagine having to rely on meds that hamper that part of me. It has definitely made my freelancing take a back seat in my life, and that sucks because audio engineering is my dream, but I make enough money at my day job that it’s fine and I can deal with it.

 

I think the one thing most everyone can agree on is that individuality is real. Mental illness does not come in one shape or size, and treatment doesn't either.

For some, medication can be extremely detrimental and for others it can be lifesaving.


As far as Kanye's tweets go, I don't think he's really said anything (in the last few days - regarding meds/mental health) that is all that dangerous. He's only outlined how he personally feels the meds are affecting him.

I understand that he has a platform and people read his tweets and feel/act a certain way, but saying "I can't make runaway on meds" is far from the most dangerous thing he's tweeted.

 

This was my biggest concern, cause meds can be life saving for certain people and don't necessarily limit creativity, tho they might in certain cases. The issue is very messy, and him just wildly launching into a tweet storm about it can have that impact, even if he didn't directly say hey no one take meds.

On the other hand yeah, this is just his experience, and its valuable to know and to talk about that, I'm only worried about people reading too much into what he is or isn't saying because he is being so flippant with the way he's expressing this stuff.

That's all I wanted to get across these last two pages, I'm not as emotionally connected to this shit and I don't want to say more than I should because I know some people have more knowledge and experience in this than I do.