Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History in Orlando • Page 2

It's always the default avatar with 10 posts to their name who jump into a discussion that they know absolutely nothing about solely to push their already decided upon narrative.

 

Nice deflection. Pretty standard move when you have absolutely no way out of being cornered in an argument.

I'll continue to wait for an actual response..

 

As long as you can easily obtain weapons like this legally, this will never stop happening.

I do plan on donating blood. Really can't stop thinking about this.

 

I'm kind of confused by Anthony's post too. Radical Islam is extremely anti-gay so it makes sense that there would be a hate crime against the LGBT community. I think it would be folly to look at this attack and not call out radical Islam's history of violence against homosexuals.

 

I will say that I agree with this. It was clearly a hate crime against the LGBT community, but one that was inspired by radical Islam. Neither of these facts should be ignored.

 

Unfortunately this tragedy has a lot of factors... bigotry against LGBT people being one, lack of proper gun control being another (I mean Christ the guy was on an FBI watch list and no red flags came up at any point), and yes... radical Islam is another. None of them should be ignored if we really want to have a rational discussion about what happened.

 

I don't think it's something that should be 100% overlooked but to jump and say it was an "Islamic attack" first and foremost is wrong. Everyone that knew the killer that has spoken on record said he was barely, if at all religious.

Facts that we know are that he was an American citizen who was obsessed with cops, guns, and hated gay people. He could be any one of millions of Americans. His religion seems to not be very important at the moment.

But people hate muslims so that's what they're going to cling to. Not the fact that he could be any one of your family members or co-workers who hold the same views.

 

It was a hate crime and act of domestic terrorism against the LGBTQ community. There have been reports that the shooter claimed allegiance to ISIL but there is no proof that ISIL actually directed the attack. Remember, they released their statement after it came out that the man was acting in the name of ISIL. In addition, the fact that he was on the FBI watch list just further goes to support the fact that this person should never have had access to firearms in the first place.

Nearly all Republican politicians commenting on this event have spoken completely around the fact that the victims were members of the LGBTQ community.

Trump: "Horrific incident in FL. Praying for all the victims & their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart & vigilant?"

Florida Governor Rick Scott: "...Clearly an act of terror. You just can't imagine this would happen to our community, our state or anywhere in our country. But for somebody to go in there and be an active shooter and take that number of lives and injure that many people is clearly an act of terror.”

Marco Rubio: "You have this level of mass casualty and loss of life here that you can just imagine the demand on the blood banks. So I would encourage those who are eligible and can give blood to please try to do that. That’s one thing we can do. And, you know, in the days to come here, in the next few hours as the authorities try to piece all this together, it is possible that someone watching this broadcast might have some information that will lead us to know a little bit more about this animal who did this."

Rep. David Jolly: "We join together today as a nation to pray for the Orlando victims and their loved ones. This is our Paris. Let us resolve today to always confront and defeat terror at the hands of evil so that this may never happen again.”

Ted Cruz: “Enough is enough. What we need is for every American — Democrat and Republican — to come together, abandon political correctness, and unite in defeating radical Islamic terrorism."

And the list goes on. "Keep the focus on Islam and ISIL. Don't mention the victims were gay, that's icky. God forbid anyone learns he was an American citizen who purchased his guns legally because that pretty much flies in the face of everything we stand for as a party." If you can stomach that slop and keep believing it then that's your decision.

 

"Do you not see how someone on an FBI watchlist who deliberately murdered 50 gay people after being allowed to legally acquire guns is being talked about as an issue with gun control and bigotry toward LGBT people instead of the 1 billion member religion he was kindasorta part of but didn't even practice."

That's how dumb your argument is.

 

He wasn't even religious at all. His own father said he was an anti-gay bigot who wasn't even that serious about practicing his Islamic faith. There is no proof that ISIL actually directed his actions, rather than just taking credit for them after he announced he was doing it in their name. Spoiler alert: ISIL can internet too.

He was on the FBI WATCHLIST and was able to legally purchase weapons, including assault weapons. He used those weapons to attack an oppressed group for the sole reason that he hated them. That isn't "radical Islamic terror." That's a hate crime.

 

I just realized we're arguing with a literal 16 year old lol

I'm out

 

I agree with this. Like in San Bernardino a few miles from my school, the shooters were American citizens. So yeah, I agree that should come first.

 

Crazy that people like this think they need to do this to "send a message" about the LGBTQ+ community, as if they aren't the contributing factor to self-harm and suicide within the community

 

Laura Jane Grace spoke out about the shooting:

Laura Jane Grace Talks Orlando Shooting, Need for More Gun Control | Rolling Stone

Continuing to prove she is literally one of the greatest.

 

I'll admit I haven't really read up on his background yet past the initial news reports that he was being investigated for ties to radical Islam, and ISIS taking credit. I agree with you now that I've looked more into it.

 

I was just going off of initial reports that he had declared allegiance to ISIS. I haven't read any updates. I'm sure we will know the full extent religion played in his life as his history is scrutinized.

 

I honestly didn't think we were arguing. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

 

I'm going to try and give you the benefit of the doubt, but here's a tip, something that took me longer than it should to learn. Don't be opinionated and take solid opinions in a public forum when you freely admit that you haven't read up on it.

It's not a good look. It's better for you and everyone involved if you're informed.

 

If this guy was on an FBI watch list then he shouldn't have been aloud to have guns. It really doesn't seem like anyone is taking smart and stricter gun laws seriously.

 

I'm not even angry (though that will come, I'm sure). I'm just deeply sad, and I'm scared.

 

His ex-wife/friends said that he became deeply religious after his divorce. He himself claimed allegiance to ISIS in a recorded phone call as he entered the club.

I don't know how you can ignore the Islamic element here.

Of course this is also a hate crime against the LGBT community. Extremist Islamists considers homosexuality to be one of the most vile sins one can commit.

This doesn't mean all Muslims subscribe to those beliefs. In fact the overwhelming majority of American Muslims don't. And I think it's just as important that we make sure American Muslims know that they have the support of the American people in these discussions, as their pain is overlooked when something like this happens.

But the discussions need to happen. The extremist sects of Islam are inspiring sick, angry, hateful, or maybe just religious people, to commit heinous and violent crimes in the Middle East, Europe, and on a smaller scale here in the United States.

We also need to empower and protect the LGBTQ community. This was, after all, a targeted attack on gays. In that sense, it doesn't matter who committed the attack. Hatred towards their community comes often and from a variety of sources, but hatred is hatred all the same and whether it be as straightforward and violent as gunshots at a nightclub, or subtle aggression towards an individual, the consequences are real and painful. Today they were fatal.

There really are so many elements here but they are not mutually exclusive. There is so much pain. I have a close Muslim friend and we often take so much pride in the fact that I am Jewish and he is Muslim and we can be so close. When something like this happens I know he hurts. He just wants everyone to know he is normal. He is American. He roots for the Dolphins. He has a baby boy who he wants to be a linebacker and his family barbecues on Sunday's. His beliefs do not lend towards hatred. He is as accepting and warm a man as anyone could wish to meet.

And of course for those in the LGBTQ community, today is a painful reminder that as far as we've come recently, it is not enough. There are few on earth more resilient than those in the LGBTQ community.

Sorry I kinda ended up ranting but on days like these my head sorta spins and most people I know in real life aren't so keen on talking about it.

 

He did call 911 and pledge allegiance to ISIS. That has been confirmed by officials. He also was reported to have become privately but deeply religious after his divorce.