Pinegrove - Skylight (September 28, 2018) Album • Page 85

Jfc you don’t even have all the information and you’re behaving this way?

 

If someone came forward and said someone they knew was abused by Jason, or who the fuck ever, yeah, I’d believe them. Why are you trying to deal in hypotheticals to justify this

 

It’s a yikes from me y’all

 

I’m really disappointed rn

 

I'm sorry, I'm definitely not as "woke" as a lot of people on this site. I try to look at situations and come to my own conclusions regardless of the direction the conversation is going in. Maybe I'm stubborn, not really sure. I've had a lot of talks with my fiancee and other people about this situation, and I don't think I'm crazy off base. I don't think I fall into the same category as a lot of people on the site and that's why I clash with them so often. It is, what it is. I try to be respectful to people but my view points are very different. Should I hide who I am just because others don't agree with me?

 

Idgaf about who’s woke or who’s not. That shit is dumb and unimportant to me. This is about believing victims or not believing victims.

 

Because in the case that i was misinformed or lying - you'd be wrong and wrong in shaming people for not jumping to conclusions.

 

My whole thing is why wouldn't you believe them? No one who has decided not to believe leerkat has provided any compelling reason. Nor have any of leerkat's posts provided a compelling reason not to believe what they're saying. Citing "bias" as a reason doesn't fly, of course they're "biased", if I knew someone who was abused you would bet your ass I'd be "biased" toward the abusers as well. Biased isn't even the right word to use because it's definition is "unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something", there is nothing unfair about it.

And I for one would rather believe someone and in the unlikely event it turns out the whole thing is fake then not believe someone and it turn out it's something very real.

 

dude it’s a hypothetical. you did not come forward and say someone you know was abused by jason. IF someone did, I’d believe them. No one has. There’s no misninformation or lies for me to believe. You think people go around making this shit up for fun? You have any idea how many accusations are false? Hint: not very many.

 

I think it's important to note that culpability of dudes is also something that people might get upset about considering what's going on with the Supreme Court and well everything everywhere

 

I am sorry, I think I let my personal feelings blind me in this situation. I am going to leave the thread, and say that I was wrong and take back what I said. I need to reflect on how I look at these situations moving forward. I am sorry to anyone who I offended during this unhinged rant, some rest and dinner will be good for me. I am especially sorry to @sophos34 who gave me the benefit of the doubt and I just continued being a stubborn asshole. I need to step away from this thread and just read and listen.

 

I’m going to the gym, eating dinner, and have some work I need to do after. I’ll respond again after that.

 

Listen you don’t need to apologize to me or anyone. You just need to reflect on what you’ve been saying today and why it’s been harmful. That’s all teebs. I believe you’re a good person deep down. Just do some serious self reflection, and take your time doing it and talk to people around you if you feel it’s nevessary. I’ve done so the last few days and several times in the past when I fucked up.

 

I posted a page or two back about Leerkat, just catching a few responses, and most of them were hostile. I tried going back through their history and I did not notice any post where they stated they knew someone else that was a victim of Evan. I did not see that at all. I'm going to dig back through to see where they state that. I honestly only saw them making claims of a there being one that came out, but nobody had provided any proof when asked. If Leerkat is that proof, then that's one thing, but I still think that they were probably the worst at being the person to tell us about it as I only saw them being aggressive and swearing at others and calling people names, which nobody else was doing that I noticed. If they truly had a friend that was hurt by Evan that I apologize as I understand that you are also probably dealing with a lot knowing that this person hurt your friend and I will try to understand where you're coming from.

Knowing that I have spent way too much time in this thread, and I didn't see any actual discussion about another person who has come forward, there's no way Teebs would have known that. They mentioned a few pages back that they blocked Leerkat a long time ago, and way back on Friday or Saturday mentioned how to block people to another user. So they really did not seem to know what was being said by Leerkat at all, and I don't blame them for doing so; however, probably not the best person to tell Jason what the details are if you are missing context.

Even Jason's quote posts regarding others accusing Evan were only people mentioning it had been happening, so I'm just confused at who said what, its all convoluted. Can someone just tell me who the friend of the second victim is, and where they posted that they knew the second victim, whether it was a previous post on this forum or on twitter or wherever?

Edit: I read farther, this is from last Wednesday when the article came out.

So based on that, I'm not sure what Leerkat knows, but this was posted back on page 46 and as far as I can tell has just been an game of telephone since.

 

This is wild

 

It’s right there in that post? They know multiple people Evan was a creep to, one specific one with a locked account so they don’t want anything public. So clearly there’s some sort of pattern of behavior. Are those people outright “victims?” Who knows, not really for us to decide, at that point you’re arguing semantics and missing what’s important.

 

I’m so glad you posted this. This is where I’ve been

 

To be fair... this has been pretty insanely convoluted and you can’t blame people who are just catching up for being a bit lost. I’ve been somewhat regularly following this and I’m still confused about many aspects of it.

I’m not doubting leerkat knows someone that was affected by this situation... but at the same time, I’m not really sure if you can exactly say someone is a bad person if they DON’T stop supporting the band. Believing a victim choosing to tell a firsthand story of their own abuse is still markedly different from believing secondhand posts that are as of now so vague that many missed the insinuation entirely... I don’t know how it can reasonably be argued that they’re the same thing. I don’t know leerkat, and this just isn’t the same as a victim telling their own story. I don’t even know what the allegation is.

Also just so we’re clear, I’m not saying anyone should share a victim’s story without their permission... I guess I would just think that in the absence of any sort of firsthand knowledge, we’re in more of a grey area and people are going to react differently to that.

 

This thread is a snake eating it’s own tail

 

I feel like there’s a lot of straw man arguments taking place. Who said anything about anyone being a bad person? “Good” and “bad” people isn’t even really a thing, no one would argue it’s black and white like that. No ones faulting anyone just catching up and asking questions, did anyone get mad at Jason’s first post inquiring about the situation? Of course not because he was respectful and genuine. There are people who have been following along the whole time still choosing to be dismissive of the second hand information out there. No one has to “cancel” the band and anyone can listen to them without fear of judgement. But if you aren’t asking questions about what’s really going on and proceeding with caution, yeah people are going to be weary of you.

 

Okay, I think we’re on more of the same page than I thought then. I definitely am not gonna dismiss the idea that there are more accusations out there, and I think the secondhand information is worth considering. I just am not at the point where I would say this band is irredeemable or SHOULD be cancelled (like I would say for some others) until I see more concrete information. But I definitely think the secondhand information is important to keep in mind.

 

Nobody is judging what anyone does in private. I’ve been on the record many times even going so far as to say that even if it’s BN, even in that extreme case, if someone needs that music to get through the day and they do it privately on their own time with as little financial support to the band as possible, that’s A-OK in my book.

But the difference is this bizarre public...defiant tone that so many are taking. It reads like “I’m going to support this band and stand by my fav no matter what anyone else says” and reeks of entitlement and privilege. Nobody owes anybody anything in terms of hard evidence; if people like leerkat, who actually are in the know and can speak on these topics authoritatively, says something is still not right, that’s a valid piece of information to know. And it raises all kinds of alarms with that article and with how the band is going about what they’re doing.

When you cross over into public support of someone suspect, and spend post after post going to bat for someone who doesn’t care about you and would probably never return the favor, it looks really, really bad. You aren’t trafficking in a grey area in that case. You’ve taken a side. And as a result you should be prepared to take criticism for it. And if you don’t like the criticism, well, that’s just something that you’ll have to deal with if you want to make the choice to stan someone problematic.

So believe leerkat or don’t. Honestly that’s your decision too. But if you don’t, there’s no need to loudly and proudly proclaim that you don’t in an antagonistic fashion. Or use apologist lingo to try and deflect. It’s a real bad look. Real bad. Just go on talking about the music and blocking those who criticize the artist and it’ll all be ok for you. It’s really simple: Public support gets a public response. Be prepared or keep the posts to yourself.

 

I feel like I keep repeating myself. Leerkat and other users spoke about other victims and Evan going against the victims way back in March.
After the p4k article was posted, leerkat specifically said there was another unnamed victim.
Many, many people/artists from adjacent scenes who claim to be close to the victim have spoken out about Pinegrove and the p4k piece. Adult Mom said they can’t endorse his comeback. Josh Coll posted pretty aggressive Tweets and, when pressed, said he spoke to the victim that day. They asked him not to say anything explicit but did encourage him to challenge the narrative of the article.


Do with this what you will. If you still wanna support the band, do it. Just stop asking for evidence thats already been posted and discussed

 

@leerkat Does this have anything to do with why you said Kevin Devine is full of shit? I realized when looking through your posts that I actually had a short conversation with you and you had mentioned that you were writing a piece regarding it, but I never found that you had posted the piece anywhere like a month later and then I forgot. Curious if this is related.

 

Theyre threadbanned