Accountability in Music • Page 163

If fandom implies a member of a band you just got into, with whom you've had a friendly and polite conversation with after their show, sliding into my dms to ask if I am into nudes and dick pics... then screw it, I'm out. I wish I had called him out at the time.

 

Don't know if this has been posted

Paramore to axe controversial track 'Misery Business' from live shows

 

I am kind of glad, I don't really enjoy that song anymore anyway.

 

Good. she always makes the crowd sing that lyric. not even their best song

 

to be fair she doesn't "make" them do anything, she just covers her mouth.

 

true, i shouldn't say 'make' she just points the mic to the crowd

 

The next time they tour they’ll be on their sixth album. They can easily push MB out for something else.

 

I've been back and forth on the Miz Biz press coverage, so I thought I'd offer my two cents, even though no one asked for it.

There is a huge difference between a teenage girl being caught up in a toxic, male-dominated scene writing to emulate those bands and a man in a band writing those lyrics. One of them is a victim of a system of oppression, the other is enforcing that same system. You can easily see the difference in the way that Hayley has been asked about this song over and over for the past 5 or so years. She even apologized WHEN the song was released, over 10 years ago, for using "God" blithely in the chorus. It's absolutely ridiculous that when she has done nothing but apologize for being caught up in that scene, I have to read tweets on my timeline from men who are "disappointed" in her to this day...When half of them wouldn't ever call out the lyrics of male-fronted bands that are similar/worse.

I am so happy to have a huge band like Paramore that is willing to stand behind their convictions and retire a song that they think is offensive. The only other band from the "scene" I've seen do something similar is when Say Anything stopped playing "Wow, I Can Get Sexual Too." (even then, it seemed like a weird dig at Jesse Lacey rather than genuine willingness to change) No other band has apologized as much AND created tangible action behind those words the same way Paramore has, and a lot of them really should be doing this. Sense Fail, Bayside, Taking Back Sunday, etc. are all bands that come to mind. Maybe with such an industry giant setting an example, they'll finally manage to get around to it.

All that being said, I don't think that the press is giving Paramore enough credit for what they've done with Miz Biz. They took a song that, honestly, is mean-spirited and full of internalized misogyny, and made it into a positive experience for fans. For YEARS, they've been bringing a fan on stage to sing the bridge and final chorus, ("Just watch my wildest dreams come true") which I think completely re-contextualizes the song. It's something that, again, no other band with problematic lyrics has even attempted.

I guess my main point is that Hayley has been punished over and over, first for having fairly normal teenage feelings that were influenced by the scene she was immersed in, then for daring to call herself a feminist while having a song with lyrics she had grown past, and even now, some outlets are framing taking it out of the set as a betrayal to the fans. It would be so great if people would just let them live, grow, and learn. They've proven time and again that they are listening and trying their best. Maybe someday the scene will finally let it be enough.

 

this is an incredible post and really hits the nail on the head. i love this.

also, in regards to the bands you mentioned - specifically senses fail - i believe buddy changes some of the lyrics live nowadays. but this moreso proves your point, he has kinda addressed it without coming out as strong as paramore has (and has taken less heat for it). which is interesting, given that by most accounts he is a vastly different person than he was 10+ years ago.

i hope this doesn’t come off the wrong way, really just wanted to chime in and acknowledge your post while coming into this specific thread (which i haven’t spent time on before) because i think it’s great

 

i think their accountability and actions attributes to the positive environment at their shows. my gf and I flew out for their red rocks show and it was such a diverse crowd and i felt so safe as a POC. even the typical drunk frat bro at the show was so nice and aware to the girls in his surroundings lol. they've definitely outgrown the scene and leaving those toxic fans behind. i'm so glad they're doing their own thing and doing it for their own community and themselves

 

thank you! and yeah, I don't really mean to put Buddy on blast because he has mentioned it a few times, but I don't see a million articles about "cute when you scream" and I don't think that he would get the same "betrayal to fans!" reaction if he took it out of the set. Like I said, my main hope is that more bands will see Paramore's action and respond accordingly.

 

oh 100%! i think you’d get some of the “ugh but we like that song!” crowd (they briefly retired 187 and got this) but none of the ridiculous stuff that paramore has gotten since this announcement.

this entire thing has people focusing on themselves and their desire to hear that song, as if there haven’t been plenty of opportunities since 2007 to hear that song live. but everyone wants to ignore hayley and her reasons for distancing themselves from this song, live at least. it’s gross.

besides, at one point they’ll bust this song out again (thats how it seems from their speech on it) and people will have long forgotten about this “drama” making it an awesome little bit for the people in attendance.

 

Good for Paramore. I wish more bands would omit lyrics or retire certain songs. I've never been a huge fan of misery business because of its mean-spirited nature but Hayley also gets like 28756955x more of a pass from me than any men in this scene. Idk why fans get so upset when songs like that are taken off. I know some women are fine with it, but for me it rly sucks and feels unsafe to be at a show where everyone is screaming along to some rly violent misogynistic bs. Even misery business I feel like some fans would get sooooo extra ott in screaming "you're just a WHORE" which for that reason I'm glad it's off the setlist and hope men will follow Hayleys example

 

lol i thought most would understand/approve of it but reading the news thread on this topic says otherwise

 

I saw Bayside mentioned earlier, I do remember Anthony commenting on the band's past lyrics after they released Dancing Like an Idiot, then received a bunch of backlash for being hypocritical.

Bayside does have some fucked up songs on their first two albums.

Bayside’s Anthony Raneri Has Responded To People Responding To Their ‘Dancing Like An Idiot’ Video - News - Rock Sound Magazine

 

tattoo this post on my back

 

the guy who wrote the lyrics on their first album hasn’t even been in the band since like 2003 or 2004, for what it’s worth

 

Correct, but We'll Be OK, Existing in a Crisis and Dear Tragedy (which Anthony specifically talks about in that link) are pretty messed up.

 

I definitely don't think it's my place to tell a band whether or not to play a certain song, like I know TBS fans wouldn't be happy if they stopped playing You're So Last Summer, and I don't think they necessarily need too or should

I know Taylor stopped playing You Belong With Me for a while and I'm not sure if it was because of the lyrical content

I would hope bands learn and grow, as @kaylasananjou said like we all have

 

Yeah like, Hayley herself has done a lot of work and growth since then and really works to make a good space around paramore and has for a while, so this move makes sense in a way and also just how many hits they have in the setlist now to work through, as well as deep cuts to keep it interesting. If you have to rotate some big songs out, the one that makes you uncomfortable and is probably the most different from what you’re doing now makes sense? I always liked her convo with Maria Sherman I believe it was

Someone mentioned tbs right above me and it made me realize how in cute without the e the backing vocals change from “she’ll destroy us all..” on recording to “we’ll destroy ourselves...” live. However they’ve never actually talked about that or any songs off tayf and other early albums beyond how thy were stupid kids or really had any sort of serious conversation, the way Hayley has done and continues to do with misery business. It’s almost as if we hold women more accountable for misogyny than the actual oppressors in the situation who we say don’t know better

 

Adam has talked about those songs, specifically Ballad of Sal and why they didn't play that one (up until the TAYF 10 year tour.)

 

Yeah I have some idea, I’ve followed them closely for years and still do. But it’s nowhere near the substance or amount of explanation that any women has to do in the scene for any size mistake they make, where as tayf is now very much a symbol on the specific misogyny in emo. I guess I just wish men did more then the bare minimum, but my expectations aren’t even for the bare minimum considering what we’ve had to work with

 

Y’all it was not meant to be a literal contest of who has said what. The point is that Hayley has been given a harder time over it than any dude in the scene and everyone knows it.

 

Men can go I didn’t know women were real ppl in 2002 :( and everyone’s like yeah okay but Hayley goes in depth about feminism and how she was effected at 17 vs now and everyone is like wow so disappointed in her from ten years ago even tho I thought it was the shit then too

 

I saw a guy on twitter say he was a fan during AWKIF and that when he saw them perform MB for the first time it bummed him out and I rolled my eyes so hard like no you fucking weren’t. I’m sorry but the discourse in the scene was just not fucking there in 2006 but go on trying to look extra woke for the internet.