Say Anything - Oliver Appropriate (January 25, 2019) Album • Page 27

Young Dumb & Stung


Or a handful of stuff from IDTII

 

Admit it again

 

Hmm. I gotta chime in and say there’s a reason people, specifically women online, may want to stay anonymous.

 

So, if Skinnymeanwhatever is a victim or someone who knows of the situation more intimately, they have a choice to tell the story or not (regardless of ethics). I don't know what has or hasn't happened behind closed doors (I don't imagine anyone else here can speak for such matters, to my knowledge.), but vagueposting "This person did something bad and is lucky you don't know" comes off irresponsible to me. Either the person wants to tell the story or doesn't but to make a middling post of that nature isn't a good way to handle the matter imo.

Once again, I can't speak for any situation or even pretend I know what might be referenced in that post.

 

Kall me Kubrick

I’ve come around on a decent amount of Hebrews but I still can’t handle Max screaming swastika endlessly in that song

 

The entirety of IDTII is tied for worst

 

Then maybe don’t? That’s my rec. in this situation.

 

I didn't, so...

 

You’re right, I said that/thought that through poorly. Thanks for the kind correction.

 

Look, I’m gonna give my POV on this as a ~queer~ person, but I feel like the Bemis situation went off the rails when he decided to present his clearly unresolved, uncomfortable internalised homophobia issues as a Great Queer Story or a healthy resolution/outlet to what I understood was his self hatred at liking men.

I didn’t want to say but that letter back then was... a lot because there was an insistance on the ~purity~ of his attraction to boys, because it was supposedly not sexual. There were a lot of tropes in that open letter that I think will make a queer person tick, and the fact he chose to resolve this publicly with a story about a violent gay man who hates his own homosexuality so much he kills the gay object of his desire is... so 1950s. Punishment Jeffrey Dahmer narratives exist, do we need more, even coming from queer men who are very loudly saying they’re grossed out by gay sex?
Like... ugh. Look. That’s his personal journey, fine, but the way he thinks of it as a totally fine thing to promote as a public artistic endeavor and not a psychoanalytic nightmare full to the brim with harmful stereotypes is just demoralising as a fellow queer person.

I mean, he associates the “gay part of himself” with the violent, misogynistic, self destructive part of himself, he insists on that being... a thing...

Look the whole release was like, look at me look at us we’re doing so well look look look we’ve got this all so figured out! Because they know they aren’t and they don’t and anyone who read that thing could tell too, like, it’s a mess and these people have tons of unresolved issues both personally and in their relationship, and I think this kickstarter meltdown is a logical follow up to this timebomb exposé.

 

*puke* (This is directed at that garbage diatribe above)

 

i think its important to have these intercommunity discussions, especially within other lgbt people who know the band, because I know leerkat isn't the only lgbt person who had some grievances or worries about it, and even if you're 100% in support it's important to get and understand that point of view because it helps us going forward

 

Is this Max’s first foray into that topic? I was never sure what to make of Less Cute for instance

 

No worries at all. Gonna PM you.

 

The official official word on “Less Cute” is that he’s singing from the girl’s perspective. But maybe that isn’t true after all...

 

It’s not a garbage diatribe, it’s a totally reasonable reaction and I share a good portion of those feelings, too. Queer-identifying people don’t seem to be super pumped about this album he’s written and how he’s describing it and that’s a perfectly valid perspective.

 

oh good i'm thrilled i didn't read the manifesto

 

“For $500 on Kickstarter my kids will perform a dramatic reading of the manifesto” - A thought that probably crossed Max’s mind

 

it took me a few reads to actually understand any of it (the prose is very hard to parse) like, I said nothing because I really like Karl and also it felt like reading someone's messy diary, but there's just so much weird and harmful shit, especially since he advertised it as him addressing "the gay thing" and I know I'm not the only one who completely expected to see a positive depiction of queerness because he said that.

 

I like Karl too

 

team #karllovers

 

I didn't want to admit it because I was afraid of someone telling me that I'm wrong or dumb, but I had the same feelings over the whole concept of this new album. The manifesto made me uncomfortable, and the points you've made clearly explain why. Something about it sounds... unhealthy? I mean, cool for him if he feels better after having put down all of his issues into this record, I'm just not sure if I'll be able to handle the narrative emotionally. It'll depend on the subtlety of the lyrics I guess.

 

I created this account to express my concern with the concept of the album the morning the manifesto was published. As a queer person of color, it made me uneasy. It seems that Max is using the excuse of a character to distance himself from his actual, albeit subconscious, opinions. My issue is, he seems to be saying; I'm sure glad I didn't follow my same-sex desires because otherwise my ingrained misogyny might've led me to murder as I wouldn't have been able to deal with the rejection on trying to experience an aspect of myself.

The reason I decided to not share these opinions until now was genuinely out of a concern for Max's mental health as I've seen post here before. I want so earnestly to approach this in love. Max is in fact, a product of a culture that has been unkind to hostile to homosexuality. After seeing @leerkat's post I felt it was a good thing to come forward as I echo their concerns. This is not so much an attempt at saying I think a certain way as I've only been able to engage in this on an intensely personal level.

Max has been there for me with his music throughout my life but right now I'm both angry at the way he's chosen to express himself ignorant of the life of a healthy queer person at the same time I realize the reason he hasn't an idea is because of the culture that instills such fears about being queer - I want to give him a hug. His manifesto makes it hard to engage with him in good faith as he's speaking duplicitously, but, I hope anyone who reads this understands I am trying to express my sincerity and concern and anger all at once which is making it so hard to speak clearly on this.

 

Most people have said it better tha I have but I largely agree, and a lot of it doesn’t seem to come from a place of hostility as it does like, things aren’t as worked through as he says they are

 

idk who karl is still