Accountability in Music • Page 157

for a while I kinda thought he was going to just stop, but he's even more cartoonishly evil than I thought. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, you know, maybe I'm paranoid, maybe he's not that much of a calculating manipulating piece of shit, maybe he had circumstances but no.

If anyone thinks his friends are even doing anything to "rehabilitate" him after reading this, assuming it's not made up by some nutcase fan, I'm gonna laugh in their face..

 

It’d be one thing if the band properly addressed it, his statement wasn’t bullshit, and some significant time passed with some sort of evidence that rehabilitation/repair occurred. But just laying low for time to pass? Fuck them all.

 

especially since their fans bullied his victims to the point of stalking and making up full rounded conspiracy theories even though he admitted to doing something. And none of the lacey clan did anything to stop them. because they all back his abuse of them

 

And if Zac Clark said that — he’s dumb too.

 

Kind of unrelated as it isn't in the music scene but had this discussion last night with some friends as to the Louis CK performance....and we got to talking about what/if anything would you want to see from an abuser that represents or expresses that one has recognized their abuse and made strides and changes for the better? And is there a certain amount of time that should pass before one is allowed to publicly perform again?

 

I can't possibly believe this is true. I feel like fans on that sub just make up random connections and conversations to keep the subreddit going

 

that's a loaded question but for starters I believe that millionaire cis white dudes whose abuse was so incredibly widespread like louis CK aren't owed a return to their preferred scene

 

I would have said so too but the fact this guy is naming a person in particular, by name, a person from the industry, makes me think it's real

 

I typically take it on a case by case basis but if your abuse involves taking advantage of your power, then you should have your power taken away and never return to the environment that allowed you to abuse

 

Take it from a non-entertainment perspective, if your boss sexually assaulted an employee, they should get fired. People will not feel safe in the office no matter how many training courses they take. They have given up their ability to hold a position of power. They're done.

Otherwise we're just shuffling priests to different parishes to cover up more crimes.

 

That's a good way of putting it

 

Yeah I see your point. I guess my only thought in that sense is that there are like criminal rehabilitation programs....I guess maybe im being naive but I always want to believe that people can get better and do better

 

Look, this can be true for people whom the system victimises, which is why we push restorative justice. Often enough, people who go through criminal rehab programmes are people who are disenfranchised.

But the thing is even the minor ostracisation that we put upon these incredibly privileged, incredibly rich, incredibly powerful men is hardly a punishment. They still have friends, family, they're not financially hurting. They don't have a reason to change. And they don't want to. But even those people are capable of redemption, it's just that redemption doesn't include getting the position of power that they had back. They are not owed it and they don't need it to be members of society who contribute to it. Power is a privilege. A privilege they think is owed to them. And if they think it's owed to them still, then it's proof that they are not rehabilitated and do not want to be.

 

Really disappointing to see Zac palling around with Jesse. He’s been a super fun guy to talk to at all of Andrew’s shows but obviously that doesn’t show me everything about him. I remember months ago Andrew’s merch guy made comments about BN coming back and that worried me too, but it didn’t occur to me that the rest of the guys were kind of in the same camp.

 

ah man, that sucks. Those dumbfucks hide their game well.

 

I believe its possible, also believe I haven't seen anyone of these dudes attempt anything close to what should be expected in a rehabilitation process.

We're pretty bad at knowing what rehabilitation looks like in this bad country we have.

 

The band was gonna be done .. I can’t fathom all of them being this stupid.

*checks Alt Press posting about AILD every other day*

Oh.

 

if you look in the comments of that reddit post (god forbid, actually) you see those little cockroaches talking about if AILD can come back and FIR can tour, "then bn can"

 

Of course they would say that. The biggest publication in that music scene has shown they'll give them a pass, it creates this permission structure that trickles down to the impressionable fans.

 

I never see Pete Wentz discussed on here but i see him come up a lot whenever people from that era get exposed (beckett, lacey)... have allegations been made against Pete Wentz?

 

I also think, when it comes to those who were in a position of power and abused it, the rehabilitation process is less likely as our world is now because theres no systems in place to actually give it the nuance and attention it requires. Most with privilege (whether that be through fame or systems of oppression) are able to live quietly but comfortably, and having lived and done a lot without consequences meant they believe not having a platform is enough of a consequences that they don't really think any work needs to be done in addition to that.

 

Basically its rumored that there may have been abuse, however the suspected victim does not want themselves/the situation to be discussed and has specifically asked that. Outside of that, he's not known for treating women well or being that great of a person.

 

I’m gonna let @Jason Tate field that because he’s spoken within the person in question and if I remember correctly she wants to be left alone/for this to not be brought up.

 

Ultimately what I believe is that in our current society which punishes the weak disproportionately through carceral industrial slavery and gives the powerful a pass to continue abusing their power, regardless of the horribleness of their crimes, conversations of rehabilitation should not start with sexually abusive rich white men.

The restorative justice movement was started as a resistance from the harm that police and the biased, racist justice system cause in Black and Hispanic communities. These communities are protecting themselves against an oppressive structure through utopian rhetoric, and yes, it works, because the community holds the accused accountable. And it allows for the community to not be fractured by these racist outside forces and thus recedes the circle of violence, which takes root in fractured, disenfranchised communities.

I think the eagerness of people to call on restorative justice for men like jesse lacey or louis ck or whoever else, who don't feel a responsibility to the community or anyone but themselves, who have nothing to fear from the institutions or the justice system, is contextually bizarre. This is not where the conversation on rehabilitative justice should start, at all. Those are not the people who need or can make use of this system. These are the people on top of the food chain. These are millionaire, white, cis, heterosexual, sexually abusive, manipulative men from suburban christian backgrounds. They have zero personal interest in engaging in the process of restorative justice and will not jump through these hoops.

Again : the conversation on restorative justice should not start with the obscenely privileged.

 

Coincidently I saw this in my @-replies just a minute ago so I don't have to go find that exact post again. But, that post is still true.

I can't speak much on what actually occurred in the relationship (but based on old interviews/blogs, it seemed like not a healthy relationship) but what usually gets brought up is her age.