Accountability in Music • Page 146

Yeah I can 100% confirm he was working UK festivals for them. I was stood so close to JJR that I could have reached out and stuck my finger through his gross over stretched ears.

 

From what I've heard he works directly for Pure Noise, not those bands specifically.

 

How does that change them working with him? Or, to quote you, to you ... how about: “Do something. Fucking call him out. I want to hear bands openly hold other musicians accountable in interviews and whatnot.”

 

It doesn't, it's definitely still shitty.

 

Its weird to see people defend certain bands in this thread because its definitely the same thought process these bands go through to avoid calling out these people who bands they like are still supporting.

 

Lol but they continue to work with the dude they were defending in the tweet?

 

I guess this is semi related to the topic at hand, semi unrelated, but it's been on my own thoughts for a while and would love to hear others thought process because it's been a problem for me the past few months, and I'd especially like perspectives from those more involved in these business side of things. When It comes to my regular social life, i tend to completely cut off or distance myself from those who i found out were abusive and those I knew had the whole story and continued to support them anyway. When it comes to music which I find a lot of my social life entangled in but more from a fan side, it's a bit harder to understand who I want to be involved with and who I don't because there's not the same level of transparency. like, obviously the hard line for me is to cut out any abusers I know about, and the part is simple enough, but its the associations for them that get less clear. For example, I talked to someone who was close to Brand New during what happened in November, and they were someone I had engaged with personally myself. I ended up really not being able to trust them after that and distanced myself, but I see other people and musicians who push the "fuck abusers and their enablers" and seem to have a solid track record of activism still engaging with this person. It makes me question what I do or do not know about both parties when this happens, and what I'm even entitled to know. Like, on one hand I'd like to have the information that make me feel safe as a young lesbian attending many of these smaller shows, but on the other hand a lot of this involves more personal lives that aren't as directly related to the incident of abuse itself and how much should I know about anyones private lives if they were not the perpetrator. I end up keeping my distance anyway, because that whole situation fucked me up too much and I can't put a gamble on anything related to it again.

In addition I see people get really angry at bands on run for cover be signed to them, like petal and camp cope, and not get mad at bands signed to hopeless or pure noise which I feel have a worse track record. I don't mean to bring this up in a purity politics way, but just wondering what the expectations are for marginalized musicians who engage more actively in social justice than for bands who come for a more privileged place and do half the work. I know for me personally, with anything, I'll feel more inclined to have a conversation with a band that's shown they are willing to listen when they mess up and will come out more guns blazing for a band I feel tends to be complacent. But overall when it comes to the actual giving support part, I feel like when it's engaging with business especially when its a whole company rather than a person (for example, JJR as a crew member due to the fact that I believe that's a more independently contracted thing) it tends to be more fuzzy and I have less knowledge of how that works as a average fan than someone who has actively worked in all that.

I don't really have a neat way to wrap this up, and I don't know if I'm looking for a solution or just a place to ramble. It's not even as if this is specific to the music scene, this is something I've dealt with in other aspects and places ive been in and maybe its something I gotta learn that many things aren't clear cut and there's no like, guide to a lot of the more specific details. It's not even a matter of trying to do whats the most """morally pure"" it's more just me not wanting to feel like an idiot and putting a lot of support behind anyone who doesn't deserve it. But I guess there's really no guarantees for anything, anyway.

actually unrelated, but I do tend to hear a lot of bands be pretty unhappy on hopeless for a number of reasons, and I would be surprised if there's a shift of some of the more veteran bands to labels like equal vision and epitaph. That's not even for like ethic things I believe as just as much unhappy with aspects of business. However, this is all through games of telephone so take it with a grain of salt.

 

I don't think that tweet was about JJR? Unless I'm reading what you said wrong.

 

The State Champs tweet was about Harry Corrgian formerly of No Good News. Now the drummer of Regulate

 

I mean it was both. People were calling for the heads of both JJR and Harry Corgan at the time the tweet was made. The "tumblr" post by Christian of the Hotelier was made about both of them.

 

I'm pretty sure it was directly associated with Harry Corgan. Not JJR.

 

Again, I think you're limiting the entire mindset that they were attempting to defend to one person. I don't see the argument here, the tweet was a direct response to the Tumblr post that mentions both men.

 

Like OhTheWater said, the "tumblr" of "tumblr justice, baby" referred to a post by Christian Holden that was mainly about Corrigan but also about JJR's threats to Christian re: what would happen to The Hotelier if Christian didn't drop the Corrigan stuff, IIRC.

 

That’s news to me then. Thanks

Always assumed it was over the initial tumblr post outing Harry

 

I could be confusing two different posts, though... I'm sure that's a possibility.

 

Regardless, fuck JJR

 

This distinction is so unimportant, we're splitting hairs about which shithead they were specifically down to ignore serious claims against

 

Another tough question I'd be curious to hear how others handle - how does one go about breaking the news to someone that their favorite band lowkey have horrid allegations against them?

I have a good friend who loves Behemoth dearly and I just know it'd absolutely break their heart to learn the allegations against Nergal and the rest of the band. Obviously, it's better that they know than not know. I just never have any clue how to go about biting the bullet and informing them. I'm not worried about them shooting the messenger - only how to bring it up without shoehorning it into a conversation.

 

I personally would like to know if I'm supporting shitty people. But that obviously doesn't apply to everyone and I get that.

 

Naturally. And I know this person well and I know they'd want to know as well. My issue is the literal act of finding the right time, place and way to inform them. Usually sharing articles about things like this on social media takes care of it but this doesn't quite work out since the allegations are so old.

 

What the hell happened with Run For Cover outside of the Pinegrove situation?

 

I honestly have no idea, I know some people were starting to tell them not to sell pinegroves stuff recently, but I pretty much haven't heard much since all the stuff with punk talks came out as well. I think it's hard to know how to lead the discussions with information that the victim didn't want us to know, but we can't pretend we don't know now as well

 

I am currently sort of dealing with this. Someone who is sort of a distant friend of mine, hangs in the same scene but not part of my close friendship group (he's always been a bit of a punchline really), has recently been outed as being emotionally abusive. His on and off girlfriend of two years recently posted about it, and it's become local gossip, yet no one wants to actually say anything.

It disappoints me that no one has said anything, but I called him out after he made a controlling tweet to her earlier, and people seem to be agreeing with it so I'm hoping people see that and hold him accountable and he takes responsibility and grows.

 

just tell them and come at them with the facts. "hey, here's something I read about behemoth, what do you think about it?". i went on a date with a girl about 3 years ago, and as soon as she sat down at the table and put her phone down, 30 secs after we met up, I saw she had a front porch step song on pause, and I made a remark, and told her about what I knew about that situation. she thought it was a bit strange, but stopped listening to them yadda yadda we've been together for 3.5 years now

 

For fuck’s sake, of course.