Bad opinions • Page 64

Kerbdog - On The Turn is better than any Nirvana album.

 

Yeah but look how relevant and applicable to everyday life it is!!

 

I'm gonna start making variations of it

I wish I didn't have to scoop every time I pooped
- 21 pooplets

 

Nevermind is practically unlistenable.

 

The Black Eyed Peas get a lot of flack for good reason but Fergie has a great voice

 

What don't you like about it?

 

Nevermind isn't their best album but it's still great. There's way more to it than most people give it credit for

 

Given that it's so polished and the poppiest of their records, unlistenable seems like weird word choice.

 

For whatever reason it's unpopular for me to say that I love Nirvana but w/e

 

I love every Nirvana record, but my most listened to might be Unplugged.

 

I should say, as the original commenter, I love Nirvana as well.

 

This is interesting to me. Do you have any standout examples that would play into this thought within this "scene" ?

I was listening to Against Me!'s Because of the Shame today and I felt like that might fit the mold. It doesn't seem to rhyme too much?

 

That's funny you mention that because Laura Jane Grace was the first songwriter that came to mind who can turn a regular ol' sentence into a monster chorus. "Because of the Shame" is a perfect example. The Forecast had a knack for that as well.

That said, I don't think rhyming in songs will ever be "played out as fuck." Sure for every "America" by Paul Simon there are a dozen songs that utilize phrases like "down on my knees / beggin darlin please," but I think that sometimes there're just instances where originality gets compromised for the sake of birthing an ear worm. I dig a good ear worm.

And @Randall Mentzos, if you haven't already, check out first couple Hold Steady records.

 

Ah! Yes, the Hold Steady is another perfect example of this!

 

This might make me the true Persona Non Grata of this thread, but here goes....

I've always hated Underøath.

I hated them when I was listening to Warped Tour comps in middle school, because I wanted to listen to pop-punk and not screaming.

I hated them when I started to get into heavier music, because I couldn't understand what they were doing that more special than their peers. (This could be part of what I call 'The Nirvana Effect,' where a band is so influential that if you didn't start out with them, they sound tame and boring compared to everything that came after.)

But more than anything, I always hated their conservativism. That these guys openly aligned themselves with conservative Christianity - and therefore actively against gay and women's rights - and enjoyed the enormous success that they have always bugged the fuck out of me. The only time I can remember hearing anything about them being challenged on this was when they dropped off the Warped Tour almost a decade ago and rumor was it was because Fat Mike of NOFX called them on this bullshit - and even then, I understand that was mostly conjecture.

That they've never been taken to task on their beliefs in a more meaningful way - especially by this community - has always been hugely depressing to me. I mean, if one of the members of Deafheaven can face a wave of public criticism for one homophobic tweet from several years ago, why can't Underøath (and other bands of their ilk) be held accountable for years of actively oppressing the rights of men and women everywhere?

I dunno. Am I missing something here?

 

They've never made any homophobic or sexist statements that I know of. Or claimed to be conservative. I didn't really follow what they did outside their music that closely so I could be wrong but it sounds like you just don't like the fact that they are a Christian band?

As far as their music, they were much better than the wave of bands that rode their success.

 

Yeah, I'd like to read what they have specifically said or done.

Then again, I listen to a ton of music and a band member's personal opinion doesn't matter to me one iota. I just want to enjoy the music.

 

Here's an article linking to Fat Mike's statements after the fact. (I'm surprised that this still even exists, it is indeed a decade old.)
Fat Mike addresses Underoath rumours

In the decade since, I have gone from a practicing Catholic to someone who believes that organized religion is very harmful, but even when I was religious, I hated them.

My problem was never with the fact that they are a Christian band. My problem was always with the fact that they believe some people don't deserve the same rights that they do.

 

Yeah, I'm not going to listen to what he has to say about any of this.

 

Spencer has talked at length about his distaste for their Christian identity. It's part of why the band unraveled.

 

damn, admittedly i never saw Underoath live but they were one of my favorite bands for much of my formative years and remain a band I happily listen to. i've trawled a lot of interviews and such over the years and don't recall much discussion of religion explicitly beyond Spencer on how his beliefs helped with him with his drug addiction. besides that they've always seemed a relatively vaguely religious band, ie not giving much on the way of their personal opinions on lgbt or women's issues. could easily be wrong but i was a pretty big fan haha

 

A continued conversation from the blink thread.

I have no idea how anyone can look at an album like Tell All Your Friends and say it's good but trash New Again and Happiness. Total ludicrous!

 

Don't really mind the opinion against Underoath; they're not really my style of music and I haven't followed them closely enough to really speak to any of the band members' actions. But, I don't think they (and most other similarly religiously positioned bands) have actively spoken out with socially conservative political views. Instead, I feel like most take the route Underoath took and try to shy away from that "Christian music" label as much as possible.

A counterpoint somewhat related to the points quoted above: Jason posted a really good Julien Baker op/ed a couple weeks ago that I thought did a really good job of portraying that not all Christianity is "actively against gay and women's rights" and how it relates to her experiences writing music.

Julien Baker Believes in God - The New Yorker

 

I've yet to listen to her music (it's on my list,) but this was a good read. It's nice to hear something other than the tired "I don't hate gays. They'll be redeemed for their sins." - which is what I was expecting to read and I'm glad I didn't.

 

Not sure how much clearer I can make this.

That they are/were Christians is not the issue. That they are CONSERVATIVES - therefore people who deny that homosexuality is normal or that women should have control over their bodies or that dinosaurs existed, and who use religion as a justification for their bigotry and ignorance, and are somehow STILL one of the most beloved, successful, and influential bands in the scene - is the issue.

Maybe I just should've said 'conservatives.'

But then this is part of why I stopped practicing in the first place: I had keep making these distinctions over and over. The label 'Christian' is actually a very poor indicator for the social values represented in the art or the person who made the art. Underøath and Emery and Norman Jean may all be 'Christian,' but that does nothing to help delineate who believes that dinosaurs are a test of faith and who is actually a functioning human being, and therefore who I actually want to support.

I dunno. I guess my takeaway when the news of them falling off the tour broke was disgust and anger that they were homophobes, were open about it, and faced very little backlash for it. Everyone else seemed to care about if they were gonna break up or not.

It made me angry then and it makes me angry now.

In any case: Julien Baker is great.