Avengers: Infinity War (Joe & Anthony Russo, April 27, 2018) Movie • Page 114

Toho is using the MCU as an example of how they will structure the future Toho cinematic universe with each monster being able to both share a worldview and star in their own film. Most of the monsters didn't have their own films and would just appear in Godzilla films during the Showa series (minus Rodan, Mothra, & Ghidorah) while none of the monsters aside from Godzilla had solo films in the Heisei or Millenium series that actually shared continuity with the Godzilla series. I can see why they are referencing Marvel if they are planning on most or all of the big monsters having their own individual films.

 

Accusing someone of "hating fun" often comes across as lame.

I've done it before, and it can have its place for people who talk about what they don't like a lot more than what they do like. I do think it's fair to wonder why someone who hates a film would continue to spend time talking about the film in its official thread. But, at the same time, people are allowed to find different things "fun," and they're allowed articulate negative takes as much as positive ones.

My only notable push back is that I can't see how anyone could argue against Marvel Studios' impact on the movie landscape. Studios have totally approached blockbuster franchise building differently in the post-MCU world. And, the structure of blockbuster films has been largely affected by Avengers (& other films like Transformers before Avengers). As much as I love a lot of Marvel's output, I'd totally say that impact is more negative than positive. But, it's there.

 

the Force Awakens has a lot to say about identity and using masks to hide your true self. There’s a lot of stuff involving self discovery and becoming who you were meant to be.

 

I don’t think the Force Awakens resolves any of that meaningfully. The Last Jedi takes everything it set up and actually says something about all of that. I don’t think any JJ Abrams film is a complete, meaningful, resonant thematic work. Star Trek (2009) comes closest. But I know a lot of people disagree about the Force Awakens, that’s fine. I still think Titanic is the only one of the four that really lands on multiple levels.

 

I find new themes and meaning almost every time I watch it.

Extremely resonate, even more so in 2018, film that says quite a lot that I think people should hear. I actually get sad when people can't see that.

 

I dunno if I agree if studios are really approaching it that differently. Movie studios have always tried to build these kinds of things using sequels and spin-offs. From the Alien and Predator franchises (1979 onward), to Freddy and Jason (1980 onward), to Universal Monsters (twenty years). And it's been extremely prevalent in TV, the serialization, for basically ever (ahhh, Stargate). Using that model on movies was something studios have always tried to do. One of the things the MCU did that changed the game was sign people to longer contracts with more films in them. (Unsure if the economics of this are better for the actors or not, but it does happen more now.) In the past it'd be a one or two movie deal, and by the third shit hits the fan with negotiations ... so, you get Batman Forever.

However, I would argue that the type (by and large) of movies that Marvel have made have had an impact on the movie landscape, and not really in a positive way. How they'll stand the test of time, eh, I dunno. Star Wars will work with kids probably forever, I dunno if people will be needing to show their kids Civil War in 30 years.

 

Agreed that MCU has yet to make a "timeless" film, but the original Star Wars is also an all-timer that works as a standalone, so I don't know if that's a fair comparison with Civil War. As much as I enjoy watching it, can't help but feel that kids are only going to be watching TFA in context of the broader Star Wars Universe in 20 years. Same with Civil War: it's a blockbuster entry point that's fun on it's own but gains a lot of its power from its connection to a wider ouevre of movies.

Are we saying the MCU film most likely to stand the test of time is Black Panther? Iron Man? I can't think of anything else that's even a possibility. (Do people like Guardians that much?)

 

I disagree. I think lots of people are starting to get into Star Wars with it right now. I know kids that have never seen the OG and watch TFA weekly. It's almost already a classic and Rey is resonating with kids like Luke did with us.

 

I think there will be an “essential” MCU list of films that will continue to be watched over time so people can revisit this massive 22 film story arc.

 

first Iron Man, Avengers, Cap: Winter Soldier, both Guardians films, Thor Ragnarok, and Black Panther are all the films i'd say are the essentials of the Marvel canon currently.

 

I disagree. There is a lot done in TFA that people dismiss because “ITS JUST LIKE NEW HOPE!!!!!!”

You aren’t saying that though. My example was only one layer and the one I’ve been thinking about the most lately.

 

I don’t see people skipping Infinity War or A4 considering they are both the end of the first three phases and the beginning of the future phases.

 

I'd argue that, while spinoffs, crossovers, and sequel setups have existed for decades, Marvel Studios took that approach to shared universe franchising to a new level, at least in terms of blockbusters in our lifetime. I don't think there were premature attempts at universe building at this scale, where there's an intended multi-franchise narrative from the onset, before Kevin Feige.

I otherwise largely agree with this post, though I do think the comic book films of this era with the largest impact will stand the test of time the way the strongest westerns and musicals of past eras did. (Black Panther, for example. And probably the first Avengers.) Granted, the initial saturation of the MCU is hard to compare to, say, the original Star Wars trilogy.

 

I mean, if you want to narrow it down to such specifics, in time and scope, sure. But shrinking it in such a way kinda loses any meaning of it being any kind of actual trailblazer. I dunno, I think it gets more credit than it deserves for doing what people always tried to do. The big innovation was figuring out how to throw more money at actors for longer deals.

 

I dunno. Maybe. Though I'm not sure that what I'm arguing for is "trailblazing" so much as establishing a fad, and if a fad lasts long enough and affects enough major franchises (and attempts), I'd personally still call it an impact.

 

Who outside of mega fans and the nostalgic are gonna care about the huge narratives 20 years from now? The successful films that can be appreciated by themselves have a much better shot at longevity.

 

I'd argue the MCU is way more of a business innovation for Marvel than a film innovation for the industry. They effectively supercharged the value of their IP as their print book revenue collapsed.

 

"Essentials" to understanding a long (kinda dumb) overarching story, sure, but I think we're kidding ourselves if we think most of these are anywhere near "classics" or "timeless."

 

If in 30 years people are sitting around randomly on a rainy Saturday going "let's watch the all time classic Infinity War" and order in pizza, I'll eat my hat.

 

That's interesting! Not my experience at all... I know a handful of people for whom TFA was their first Star Wars movie and it didn't resonate at all. I'll have to check with my younger nephews and report back haha :)

 

I mean, the numbers speak for themselves ...

Kylo and Rey have become a popular baby names. The most popular kid costumes? Rey. Kylo. Rentals and movie purchases are through the roof. An entire new era of fans is getting into the lore. I didn't think that would be a controversial statement, heh. Like ... the movies have become a cultural touchstone.

 

But if his nephews didn’t care for it or see it, then clearly you are wrong.

 

If the biggest characters of the franchise have their goodbyes in A4 then it will be a film that people will watch until the franchise is no longer cared for and it will be a necessary for anyone watching any of the films for the major characters that bid their farewell. It’s the end of their arcs.

The question would just be if only mega fans will want to watch the beginning and end of Iron Man, Captain America, or Thor but I don’t think anyone in 20 years will just have an interest to watch Iron Man 1 or The Winter Solider. I hear more people talk about Civil War than any solo Marvel film and anyone who hears about the MCU years from now will most likely be looking to watch the teamup films instead of spending over 45 hours of their life watching all of them.

 

I really can’t agree at all. A film being just okay or even “actually good” is completely different from saying it had some major cultural impact or influence, which is what I’m talking about. Like, Spielberg has multiple films that the vast majority of people would probably agree are foundational to both trends within specific film genres and “movie culture” (or whatever) as a whole. I wouldn’t put any of those four films on nearly the same level as that

 

The overarching story of like, ten years of movies was mostly a bunch of superhero origin stories happening while Thanos popped in at the end of every one saying “stay tuned!”. It “worked” in the moment because of the novelty and these characters were new and the universe was new, but won’t age well because it’s not actually even a story.