Sorority Noise Drop Off Tour • Page 2

Just gonna say this: if we judge the validity of abuse based on whether or not the perpetrator thought they were doing anything wrong, we're back to using terms like "legitimate r*pe" and oh yeah, emotional abuse doesn't count either.

"She let me" isn't and shouldn't be conflated with active consent and until these folks learn that, nothing will change. That's the entire reason conversations like this need to happen, or nothing changes.

 

Some people seem to struggle with the fact that giving consent once and even regularly does not mean it's just a given and that it can still be withdrawn at any time. It is such an archaic view.

 

i would suggest you look up "enthusiastic consent" and do some more reading on what consent means, looks like, entails, etc. consent at one interaction does not mean a person consents to all interactions. consent means asking every single time, and being in tune with your partner and reading their body language, expressions, and listening to them. a person has the right to consent at the beginning and then revoke that consent at any time during if they so choose.

 

This.

And also: not for nothing, but I'm very, VERY tired of seeing details like "without a condom" getting brushed off as though it isn't a big deal, especially by folks who have penises. It is a huge deal to not get permission to have unprotected sex first, but it gets treated like a minor detail or an annoyance/inconvenience a lot in these conversations and as someone who had to deal with repercussions from my abuser violating that trust on multiple occasions, IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL and we need to STOP acting as though it isn't.

 

Yeah the condom issue is honestly what was a red flag to me, but I can’t be the only one who was either had foreplay initiated on them or have initiated it with someone (like spooning) who has mutually expressed consent the night before? I wouldn’t do it with someone I didn’t know REALLY well but as others have said, this sounds like a lack of sex education in effect. I believe it could’ve been emotionally traumatizing for this woman however.

 

This is an interesting inclusion into the public statement. A person wouldn't include details in a statement like that without seeing them as important. Truly, it doesn't matter how any of us feel. If she felt it important, it IS important. It IS a big deal.

That said, the "no condom" thing should objectively seen as a big deal in any sense.

No way to corroborate this or anything like that, but I bet there was a condom discussion somewhere else where he said things along the lines of "it just doesn't feel good" etc. in a pressuring sort of attempt. Push someone towards something far outside their comfort zone so they won't view the thing a little outside their comfort zone as problematic.

Not to get too political - but I'm political sooooo - this is the same thing we see Trump do. "We're going to round up immigrants and send 'em out en masse immediately" (paraphrased) gets backlash so then ICE tearing apart homes one at a time unprompted is that touch more normalized. "Grab her by the pussy" is a stretch too far (obviously) so "have sex with a porn star while your wife is pregnant" isn't as offensive to the religious community.

Behavior of an abuser who has learned to be good at abuse through their many victims.

 

Again, seems like you're seriously minimizing the no condom issue.

And, yes, I've tried to initiate in the morning. I also waited to see if they enthusiastically reciprocated or not before proceeding with touching anyone's genitals. It really isn't complicated. (Hint: they sometimes don't, which is when you stop. Wild how that works.)

 

Oh I totally agree that nobody should ever continue with any sexual interaction with the other party if the feelings aren’t mutual. I also am not minimizing the condom issue but if I’m coming across that way I apologize, the no-condom was the biggest red flag I saw that made me think hard critically about this. It’s just my stance that this sounds more like a wild lack of communication rather than sexual assault. I’m usually on bands’ asses when they say or do anything like this (Pinegrove is dead to me until anything further is done about that situation).

 

As someone who has been rejected in a similar situation and immediately accepted it, I guess where we differ is that what you characterize as a lack of communication, I see as one party not bothering to attempt communication because they wanted what they wanted and assumed they were entitled to it.

Again: it isn't difficult to find out if your partner is into it and I'm not really interested in softening how wrong this kind of thing is or how much damage it can do by chalking it up to a lack of communication, which distributes the fault amongst the involved parties instead of putting the onus on him, where it belongs.

 

I just don't get it, how hard is it to ask quickly "Do you want to?" Like, I ask my girlfriend (and have every person I have slept with) every time and it never "takes you out of the moment" or whatever bullshit, it's just the right thing to do.

 

ESPECIALLY if it's not someone you know all that well. (Don't get me wrong, it's crucial always: but when it's a new thing you literally can't reliably expect to be able to read the person that well whereas longtime couples can develop their own ways of communicating.)

 

Exactly, over time I have learned to tell with individual people I've dated or whatever, but I still ask. I cannot imagine not asking on the second damn time.

Also, just because I realised I didn't mention it earlier, who the hell doesn't use a condom without asking and ensuring it's safe and you are both okay with it?

Clearly, he wasn't thinking about anyone but himself.

 

And THAT is why I'm not buying the "miscommunication" line because it gets trotted out every single time a guy is relying on ~grey area~ to get what he wants without considering anyone else.

 

he also just straight up penetrated her with no foreplay. that shit is painful and a red flag for people who should be having mutually enjoyable, consensual sex

 

Prior consent is not continuing consent. Jesus Christ. I cannot believe it even has to be said that a sleeping person cannot consent and that not using a condom without explicit permission to not use one is a sexual violation. Please, please research enthusiastic consent and examine all of your sexual behavior. If you’re so worried about a no that you don’t want to ask or “ruin the mood,” you are the fucking problem.

 

Nail on the head.

 

Amazing avatar. Buck Dancer for life.
Perhaps my reluctance to classify this as rape lies in my nature to not assume the worst. Without being in the bed with them it's difficult for me to instantly assume it was a free for all. However, I stand with whatever the outcome is and wish both parties good luck.

 

i think it's easier to not assume the worst when you havent been nonconsensually fucked, but. why should we extend goodwill to rapists

 

Tell 'em Spence

 

i mean, i just dk what else to tell you. if cam somehow didn't know what he was doing which itself is not super likely since the emo and punk DIY communities are supposed to take this stuff seriously - that still does not change the fact that his actions were violent, violating, and his to own. his supposed ignorance of their gravity does nothing to help the woman he fucked without consent.

 

Valid. Thank you Spence.

 

...the reason you assume it wasn't consensual... is because she was in that bed and said it wasn't and this isn't about what you personally do or do not want to classify as... you know what, nevermind. I need to learn some new breathing exercises.

 

To label Cam, a rapist, is a stretch in my opinion. It sounds like a lack of communication the second time they had sex. She says they had “started engaging in sex again” but her back was turned and he didn’t have a condom... so that’s rape? Was he wearing a condom when they had sex before? They also had a history of having feelings for each other before this encounters. The story is so vague I honestly don’t know what to make of it. It just sounds like she had a one night stand, regretted it, and now calls it rape to people she chooses to tell. Then again, she also just wanted to deal with it privately. I think all of this hate should also be directed to Nicole, the person who broke the news without consent of the victim who chose never to publicly come out about her story until now because she is being forced to since the accusations came out. I can’t imagine the distress she is feeling to now have to relive that uncomfortable moment in her head and having all this shit come out.

 

...so many confusing and conflicting ideas in here

 

Because I’m just as confused about the situation.