Accountability in Music • Page 58

I didn't want to derail the thread, I just vaguely remembered that TWY had been connected to an abusive person before. If they have been warned about abusers in bands and yet still decide to take those bands on the road I think we should expect better from them since they are the poster child of their scene right now and getting tons of praise for their new record.

 

I should also be clear that them doing the right thing in that situation does not excuse them if they knew about this before the tour was booked. If that’s the case I will cut them out of my life just the same I cut out Brand New.

 

Idk why were splitting hairs about the matter. Some members of the band continued to be friends with JJR and wanted the situation kept quiet. Like Jason said

 

I mean an unverified post on a forum saying they knew doesn't convince me that they knew, it does raise eyebrows but it's not near enough verification to say for sure they knew about the Cam situation before deciding to take him out on tour. If more information comes out that can provide more evidence I'd assess accordingly. Relitigating the JJR stuff just seems to be getting away from the actual issue with what's going on with Cam.

 

At the end of the day every member of the band cut ties with JJR and no one in the band has spoken to him in years though

 

Right my bad, I mean if that’s the case, we don’t know if it was conveyed to them.

 

I think what Jason is hinting at is that that last part may not be true

 

How could you possibly know that last part?

 

Because I've spoken to a member of the band about it

 

Regardless, this discussion is about Cam. My point is that TWY don’t necessarily have the cleanest of hands re: handling things well

 

Great now I get to play the "who to believe" game

 

I mean I’ll openly say that I was one of the people privately speaking with a member of the band when it went down and that discussion is a part of the reason why I’m not so quick to let them off the hook

 

I mean I thought we all came to the conclusion they didn't handle it all that well when it happened but at the end of the day they did end up doing the right thing? And now you're saying it's possible they lied and they do still talk to him? Based on what?

 

I saw JJR hanging with bands and crew at an unrelated show a few years ago and it was a very surreal experience. Getting a taste of how insular the scene can be when it comes to these people and how quickly people forget.

 

Nobody is letting them off the hook l. It took longer than it should’ve. But they did the right thing in the end. And without supporting him at any point. I thought that was what was ultimately important.

 

Some bands never cared. Four Year Strong and Forever Came Calling, for example, still work with him.

 

I feel like this is the point that's relevant in this discussion, though. I don't think anybody here is arguing or suggesting that they didn't end up doing the right thing. And I don't think any of us can answer with any firm authority that we know who the band members do or do not talk to in their own personal lives. It sounds like you have the closest we can get to an answer based on the conversation you had with a band member.

But re: Sorority Noise situation, TWY's "not handling it that well" when JJR was accused of shit is what is relevant to how they do or don't address the current situation.

 

“Not handling it that well” is not the same as “sticking by/promoting” though, which was the distinction being made in response to the original question. If the original question had been “do they have a history of not handling things like this well?” then the answer would’ve been a simple “yes.”

 

Yeah I was honestly just trying to point out TWY's history or "not handling things well" not wanting to bring up if they still talk to that dude or not. My point was more that if you are the leader of the scene you should be holding bands accountable for their shit actions. We can all agree about that in the "Accountability Thread" but bands need to be taking this stuff seriously and actually handling things properly to begin with.

 

A stronger statement from the band on why they fired JJR would maybe, or maybe not, have kept him from still working with other bands in the scene. But at the very least it woulda made me feel better having been lied to by him, especially when he continues to have a career virtually unfettered after trying to silence a victim of assault. Never loved hearing from other bands that their labels wouldn’t work with AP anymore because we called out that situation either. We got blackballed from ads and interviews and advances because of it. That’ll never sit right with me no matter what private apologies occurred.

 

I never really conceded that. I was told to basically stop bringing it up by a lot of people who were on my side in the beginning bc they donated to RAINN. I get that Dan did the right thing, but the band still leaves a bad taste when things like this are brought up.

No idea if they still talk to the dude but ill put it this way: if members were hesitant to cut ties/fire him when all of that shit came out, fuck em.

 

Yo but they did though. They stuck by him. Sticking by does not equal promoting in my mind, so those are two different things. But they clear as day knew about the shitty things JJR had done, and it still took them a long ass time to get rid of him, and then they chose not to make a public statement about any of it because they felt like they owed it to him as a longtime friend not to tarnish his relationship over it. That's "sticking by" him. Even if they fired him, they sure as hell stuck by him first.

 

guess I'll just go jump off a bridge

 

I guess I don’t know what the limit on “sticking by” someone is then. Firing him, cutting all ties with him, and (according to someone who has spoken personally to member of the band recently) not speaking to him in years doesn’t sound a lot like it to me. Everyone agrees they didn’t handle it well but they did the right thing in the end. Don’t know what else to say. Also doesn’t have any bearing on the serious accusation that this discussion has gotten off topic from. If that’s true, I have no issues declaring them dead to me and I mean that.

 

I feel like you're purposefully being difficult here. Again, I am not saying that they didn't end up doing the right thing. I'm saying that before they did the right thing, they did multiple wrong things, which should not be erased from our memory of the situation, because those wrong things were their initial responses, and we're watching their initial responses to the Sorority Noise situation right now, so it's relevant.