2017-2018 NBA Season Thread [Archived] Basketball • Page 497

i agree with most of that. even if we want to remove that portion of the argument (which i don't think should be done entirely, but whatever that's fine) i think what mitchell has done with the team he has around him and the injuries that team has had playing in the conference they're in is much more impressive than what simmons did with his team.

simmons will still win. it's fine. saying it isn't close, like this is last season where the favorite went down and they had to scramble to find someone else to give the award to, is a little silly to me.

 

simmons looks like a future MVP and a player who led his team in most measurable categories to home court advantage in a tougher conference doesn't? what is the definition of MVP? what does value mean anymore if not that

 

people bash russell westbrook for getting triple doubles and call it a meaningless stat and call ben simmons a future mvp because he gets triple doubles as a quote unquote rookie. y'all can't have it both ways lmao.

 

I love Ben. A lot. But I think Mitchell will take a bigger leap next year than Ben.

Ben probably averages around the same stats. Maybe an extra assist or two.

I could see Mitchell legitimately averaging 26~ a game next year.

 

Has anyone really said a triple double is meaningless? Or was the argument that 27/7/7 is also incredible and the stat needs context with what he did and how. Westbrook had an incredible year. No one said he didn’t. Just that Harden was the mvp.

 

People call Westbrook’s triple doubles meaningless because of how he gets them. When your team is boxing out to allow you to pad your rebound numbers and you’re assist hunting at the end of close games when you’ve already got 8 or 9, it’s a bit different. But I mean, yeah, it’s still an arbitrary stat regardless. People aren’t fawning over Ben just because of his triple doubles

 

i didn't say it was the only reason. but there is a difference in the perception of how simmons' triple doubles are discussed and how russell's are. which is a whole other discussion haha.

 

Regardless I’m so excited to see the league in 5 years when LeBron is still the best but all these other dudes are in their primes

 

bogut had more PPG that season. so yeah, it depends on if you're looking at PPG or total points. but it wasn't like bogut played 30 games either, he played 69 (nice but fuck him) and averaged over 30 mins. a game

 

y'all just made me reference fucking andrew breitbart bogut. can we end this discussion?

 

Simmons leads the 76ers in Win Shares at 9.2 (the next closest is Saric at 6.5)

Mitchell is fourth on the Jazz at 5.0.

Simmons has a net rating of 8, Mitchell’s is 5.9.

Simmons is 3rd on his team in points, second in rebounds, first in assists, first in steals, and 3rd in blocks.

Mitchell leads his team in points, 6th in rebounds, third in assists, second in steals, and fourth in blocks.

There is no doubt that Mitchell has had an awesome season. His usage and scoring are impressive as hell for a rookie on a good playoff team. But Simmons has more responsibility on his shoulders, both offensively and defensively, than Mitchell and he has produced at an insanely high level. And as a result, he has clearly been more of a driving engine to his team’s success than Mitchell.

Maybe Simmons can handle the greater responsibility because he got an extra year around the team to learn and understand their concepts. That’s possible. But I’m not going to ding him for that. He still needed to execute at a high level and he has.

 

i mean, those numbers are ignoring (or not necessarily ignoring, just diluting themselves due to early season play) what mitchell did the middle of the season while gobert was out. they were out of the playoffs and now they're going to get home court in the west. the run he went on and then the team when gobert came back going on the 10 or 11 game streak is inspiring as hell. simmons has had embiid the majority of the season, two bench players that are better shooters than anyone else on the jazz not named donovan mitchell, and none of the pressure actual rookies go through by philly's own rookie shouldering (you're welcome) the brunt of that

 

If Simmons develops a jump shot, all bets are off.

And because the NBA insists on giving us the craziest storylines, I fully expect Simmons to come into next season sporting a new, right handed, jump shot that dominates the league.

So we will have a number one overall pick who forgot how to shoot a jump shot and another number one overall pick who learned how to shoot a jump shot with his other hand...on the same damn team haha.

 

Also Quin Snyder > Brett Brown

 

Oh 100%. Ben is terrifying now. If he learns to shoot? LOL good luck

 

quinn snyder is better than brett brown, yes, but brown is hardly hoiberg

 

i also don't really think bringing up "well x has y coach" is a fair discussion point to add into it. people were using stevens as a plus for tatum's candidacy when he was killing it early on. again, you can't give props to one rookie for playing under a top 3 coach in the league but than hold it against another rookie for playing under a top 5 coach.

 

Embiid only played 9 more games than Gobert.

 

Simmons plays in Philadelphia, a city notorious for its shitty fans, he was the number one overall pick, and his team was projected to win 40 games in the Vegas over/under after winning 28 the year before.

I’m sure he had plenty of pressure on him.

 

you think philly fans were ever going to be shitty to simmons? have you gone on twitter during the last three years?

 

this seems genuinely shocking to me. fair point.

 

Dude it’s still worth it. Went to a couple last year and paid about $75 for really high up. Sooooo much fun