The Hotelier - Goodness (May 27, 2016) Album • Page 62

I don't care if they get a banner under their name that says BNM, I care that a lot of people check Pitchfork for the express purpose of listening to everything that gets a BNM tag. If that arbitrary distinction is the difference between hundreds of people glossing over them or giving the album a shot, supporting them, putting gas in their van-yeah, I care a lot about that.

 

I have many friends who, as fickle as they may be, wouldn't listen to an album out of their comfort zone - especially one with naked old people on the front - unless it got a pretty high score. I couldn't give a shit what anyone thought about this album personally as I know I will love it, I just really want them to grow and more people to hear this incredible band through any means possible, that starts with the better music reviewing sites giving it a spotlight.

 

After talking to some Pitchfork writers ... I don't think that's gonna happen.

 

I can't believe you haven't asked me for it? hahahah.

 

They didn't like the album?

 

i don't know anything about how music writing stuff works, but i'm guessing scoring is far more of a calculated effort than whether they like or don't like the record. this probably isn't the type of music they want to give BNM to.

which sucks, because aesthetically and musically they have way more in common with epoch / ddw stuff than most of the bands they get lumped in w/

 

also bringing back the YJ discussion, it's so weird (and way cool, but also weird) to see like straight-up local bands start to get buzz on the internet, especially from music blogger-type people

 

I had no idea you were writing over there, will have to go dig some of that stuff up. You should still do a blog or something for Hotelier. That way you don't have to feel bad about having an advance. Haha

Which is pretty much definitely going to be what happens.

I was going to ask for it, and then like 10 staff members asked for advances so I was just like "Well, I'm not going to review this or interview them, so do I really have a reason to ask for it?" I didn't, and I've got enough music to hold me over and keep me busy until this comes out. Seems like the rollout has been interminable, though. I can only imagine how painful it's been for someone who is anticipating this record above anything else this year.

I think everyone on this site would probably like to see that happen. But up until a few years ago, Pitchfork didn't just dismiss music from this scene, they mocked it mercilessly and scored albums in the 3.0 range. I don't really think they're ever just going to go back on that completely and give an emo album BNM. On one hand I'm not sure how the readers would react, and on the other hand, Ian Cohen talks pretty often about how much he disagrees with most of his colleagues on rock music. While he might be ecstatic about this band and this album, and while the Pitchfork Fest booking shows some support from other staff over there, I don't think that translates to BNM, solely because of the scene this band comes from.

 

I think most people are considering "emo" (at least stuff in this, IIOI, World Is, Pinegrove, etc) realm modern indie rock at this point

 

I don't know what would happen to my brain is this streamed on Friday (the same day the brand new releases a new song)

 

absolutely agree but p4k writers definitely don't see it that way, they're hung up on idk, real estate and ex hex and ought or something

 

nah, if anything it's going towards the mitski/porches/frankie cosmos/car seat headrest stuff, which is far closer to "emo" than older indie rock ever was

 

oh the la show just sold out I think, this is v good news, hope it's not too late for ppl to set up something after

 

I mean, ultimately the question is whether or not Ryan Schreiber is one of those people.

 

is that the dork that did that dorky indie rock article where he should have focused on the best of female indie rock and instead talked about two boring male indie rock bands instead?

 

I have no idea, but he is the founder and editor-in-chief.

 

oh, you're talking about the pitchfork dude, thought you were talking about that mtv article, idk

 

yeah but also that stuff is barely, if at all, associated with this stuff (hotelier, twiabp, pinegrove, etc). Frankie c and mitski and eskimeaux were born out of DIY bedroom pop and at no point were associated with emo revival. The bands that sound p much exactly like them but retained that association (elvis d comes to mind) don't command the same respect from these giant publications on any level. The Hotelier specifically is far closer in sound to epoch and double double whammy stuff than it is to the emo revival it gets lumped in with, especially with this latest record, but their fanbase is wildly different and strengthens that association with emo, which is why they won't be able to be fully embraced by mainstream indie at this point in time.

 

yeah, all that makes sense.
this topic as a whole is so incredibly arbitrary and it's all pretty much made it up anyways, i don't know why we've been talking about this for so long haha

 

Yeah I emailed Will a while ago, never heard back haha

Touche haha

 

They do, but BNM is a whole different beast. The politics and all that. I just won't be shocked from what I've heard if it gets a nice score and review and goes BNM-less.

 

wrote up some thoughts about goodness pt. 2, which is the most interesting song on here to me as far as what it tries to do. prefacing w/ a >i love this record / i just like talking about things that don't work more than things that do!!!

so i don't think it works tbh. the drums and slightly dissonant synth/guitar do initially make the song feel incomplete, in the sense that you're left waiting for the (v catchy) melody to be given the support it commands and curious about how it will happen. but then the song kicks in a little bit just when you expect it to, and by the second verse, the desire for completion has faded a bit. the drums manage to make the first half of it just really weird but not necessarily interesting, discordant, or suspenseful. which in itself is fine, but when the rest of the band bursts into a standard rock song in a very climactic way, it's clearly supposed to feel completing and rewarding, but it doesn't really. the first half doesn't even feel minimalistic, it just feels like it's missing a piece and then the puzzle gets completed in a predictable way.

also for something like that to work the beat has to be really strong - it has to carry the song for the first minute and then seamlessly allow the other instruments to burst in. you are invited does this so so so well. that little drum fill just before the second chorus is just done perfectly. the drum beat that holds up goodness pt. 2 is bad. it's probably my least favorite drum pattern on the album. it doesn't fit the melody at all and it also comes in on an off beat. i guess this could be construed as a manifestation of dissonance, but i just think it could have been done better. it defies conventionality without being interesting in and of itself.

it also goes overboard in the last minute and a half with the guitar solo imo. the ending itself, as a piece of music, is brilliant but in its place in the song it doesn't feel deserved at all*. structure-wise the song seems to follow you are invited pretty closely and i'd be seriously surprised if that song had no bearing on this one, but it ultimately doesn't succeed at doing that thing.

also by opening with goodness pt. 2 (preceded by spoken word), the album sort of demands patience from the listener rather than inviting it. the first three minutes (and the first three songs tbh) are the most challenging ones, and the rest of the album drifts between various musical ideas but always stays incredibly catchy and within the boundaries of pop structure, like the initial challenge (i want to say ~weirdness~) had no purpose.

*this seems to be a running theme throughout the album. it does happen in individual songs but mostly if you look at the sequencing. two deliverances is amazing of its own accord, but it isn't the purposeful pop song it could have been. it also happens again with end of reel. not the song itself, but its place in the album. it doesn't feel earned imo. i guess this in itself could be what the album is trying to illustrate, that compelling resolutions can be achieved in subdued ways, but if you take end of reel on its own, it feels like an end that is reached after going to a lot of different places and feeling a lot of different things. it feels like an end to a very dynamic journey, which is not what goodness is.

an interesting parallel to me is (again lol) lenses alien, which has kind of a reversed dynamic. it plays between noisey dissonance (over unmemorable melodies), and subdued, catchy pop structure. the two conflicting elements give purpose to one another and make the album what it is. goodness doesn't play between restraint and climax so much, but when the two elements do interact they don't coalesce into a meaningful musical story if that makes sense. end of reel the song is ironically the first time it happens.

edit: actually end of reel does it so suspiciously well that i'm starting to wonder if this is part of the point of the album
sorry for my constant walls of text in this thread lol. idk how to say things concisely

 

Holy shit. Gotta make a mental note to dive into that later.

 

This is a great write up, when I heard goodness pt 2 I loved how it came in but actually thought that it ended too quickly... Like you made us wait patiently for this song to unravel and the climax feels like the start of the song now give me more... It will take me dozens of listens before I know it this really works for me though

 

I'm confused... What is BNM?