Aziz Ansari Responds to Accusations • Page 2

This is so, so, disappointing.

Aziz has played the 'nice guy' card for so long that as a fan, you actually start to believe that's how he really is. I feel terrible for the woman that had to go through that and applaud her for standing up and saying something.

 

Thanks a lot for the info, it's so hard to find a Devil's advocate in these kinds of situations!

 

Why is she talking pictures of have eaten salad and using them in the story?

 

Glad to know that that's what's bothering you in all of this.

 

thread:

 

she wrote a really good piece too
The Aziz Ansari accusations may not be about rape, but they are about rape culture

 

this has been the tipping point from outrage to indifference for a lot of folks. some people on my feed that i usually can bank on to promote awareness are sharing the "guilty of not being a mind reader" article and saying how this is where the movement jumps the shark etc. i think folks are tired of turning on artists they enjoy and are allowing the contrast to admittedly larger offenses color this one as less problematic when in reality getting away with these "smaller" trespassings can often lead to escalated instances as they shape the man's idea of what "okay" is. really disappointing and i hope the trend of "hey at least it's not Spacey" dies in a fire.

 

yeah, it's really a pain. the articles posted a few posts back are the things people don't get, that this can be contributing to rape culture based on the way society has been shaped before without actually thinking aziz is a genuinely despicable person. this is maybe even a more important story to pay attention to because this sort of incident happens to everyone as well

 

i'm trying to articulate my feelings against the whole "guilty of not being a mind reader thing" but i dont know how to get it out.

basically, sure he's not a mind reader but you know in your head when you're about to do something wrong/uncomfortable/abnormal. with the example of sticking his fingers in her mouth, she shouldn't have to open her mouth and say this is making her uncomfortable for him to know this is a weird situation and not commonly practiced (I assume...). if you proceed with an action that you KNOW is weird/wrong and not ordinary, you are responsible for the outcome and repercussions. and if you claim to not have KNOWN that said action was weird and inappropriate, its up to you to educate yourself and the blame is not removed.

if that made sense.

 

When I read this stuff and both sides of the argument it really comes down to how about men act like gentlemen towards women and don't act like a first date is a privilege to tear a woman's clothes off. I know Aziz's parents taught him better, I hope they did. I know mine did.

 

I keep telling my friends that this may actually be the most important dialogue to come out of the whole movement so far because it requires a more nuanced understanding of consent that's more directly attributable to a more common experience, and forces a direct reflection on past experiences and a rewiring of how people personally approach these situations in the future. But it's easier to be more "invested" in a situation that causes a greater emotional reaction, like the Harvey Weinstein or Eliza Dushku cases.

 

Eliza Dushku? Do you have a link on that story, I never heard anything regarding her.

Rape culture is real and it is scary. We need to do better by not conditioning men to think they’re entitled to sex and women to think they must be submissive or not say anything.

 

Eliza Dushku accuses stuntman of molestation - CNN



Terrible. Not to derail the importance of this conversation.

 

i def agree with what you're saying! this is a little nitpicky but IMO the point isn't to make men act more "gentlemanly" towards women - it's to just have them afford women the same basic level of respect they'd give to any dude in a non-sexual situation. the bar is truly on the floor.

 

I've been fighting about this in bad threads on Facebook for a day, that mind reader article and other takes are such trash. They're all coming from the perspective that Aziz is this innocent sweetheart, that this woman is a liar and wants fame (this anonymous woman wants fame and money? People are insane). But all of Aziz's moves were carefully calculated to manipulate and push the situation right up to the point of actual assault leaving just enough space for him to claim innocence, ignorance, and not being able to read the situation. Its bullshit, he knew what he's doing, he's a dude who's written extensively about dating and reading cues from people. Forget about reading her mind, he could tell exactly what he's thinking, read his mind, he's trying to manipulate her with bullshit tactics just to the point where it becomes all out assault.

This isn't a bad date where his intentions were all good and there's some misunderstanding. Everything he did was purposefully done to manipulate this person into going further than she intended, using his facade as an ally, as a nice guy, as someone who understands assault, to make her feel safe in a dangerous situation that continually escalated. Fuck him. I can't believe people are so naive to think he's innocent and dumb all of sudden, he's built a career around being empathetic and understanding emotions in dating. He's not some dumb high school kid, he's actively trying to manipulate people and playing dumb after, its sick shit.

 

The single most distressing thing to me about Grace’s story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

This is directly from the NY Times article, and while I hate the first part of the sentence about it being the single most distressing thing in the account, I agree with the sentiment of agency in the scenario. No where in the account is Aziz described as being aggressive or threatening, and while I understand the psychological aspect of it that has been ingrained into a lot of women, I think it's a bad trend to lump these kind of scenarios in with some of the others we've heard about.

I've said this before in another thread, but I truly believe that hyperbolic language is damaging to the movement. If you call things like this assault, the perpetrator is going to get defensive (and to some degree rightly so) and defend themselves from the label of being a sexual predator/rapist/assaulter, whatever you want to call them. If instead you took it for it was, entitled, immature, misogynist behavior, I think more men would look at their actions. One choice of language leads to a knee jerk reaction and complete denial of any wrong doing, and the other opens it up to introspection, reflection and hopefully change.

Going back to the original statement from the article, the account reads like Grace is upset she didn't get up and leave, and rather than deal with her choice of staying and doing some things she regretted, she's trying to shift any and all blame from herself to Aziz. Unless there's details being glossed over, at no point did it seem that she couldn't have simply said 'i dont even want to be here to chill anymore, you don't understand that nothing is going to happen and since that's the case, bye.'

 

Conjecture conjecture conjecture. Let’s keep it going guys!! We were ALL there so let’s talk about it like we know he was an ass. Two sides to every story. The fact that I’ll be chastised for this post proves my point exactly.

 

Has Aziz denied anything??

 

i would ask if you're a fucking moron but your post answers it for me. there is one side to this story, the victims side. we know this because aziz' statement confirmed that what she was saying happened is factual, and is not denying it.

keep fighting the good fight though.

 

Ugh. Didn’t you read his post?! You all just proved his point...exactly!

When one comes in like an asshole and says there are two sides to every story, and you correctly call that person an asshole, it somehow proves that, yes, there are in fact two sides to every story. That’s just unassailable logic.

Don’t even try to assail it.

Edit: in other words, you have been Ben Shapiro’d

 

I guess I just don’t need to “be there” to understand and hear out a victim’s side. You’re chastised because you’re an idiot.

 

(it's almost like people are trolling and not actually trying to have a productive discussion lol shocker)

 

Aziz has not denied anything she's said. I just feel like people didn't read her account on babe.net at all because it is legitimately baffling how much pushback I've seen on this instance, in support of Aziz, even from more progressive or liberal-minded people and publications. I feel like you have to just flat out not have read her account to be able to feel like this isn't assault.

 

Actually the account mentioned wine, so clearly she's been paid off to lie and the man with status and celebrity who built a career on understanding modern dating is more likely to be a big dumb fraud than another person abusing their power. So yeah, bring on season 3, the all women are liars season.