Aziz Ansari Responds to Accusations

I keep reading this in his voice and it's bothering me a great deal that I can't take himself seriously because of it.

 

No indication? Rly. Men need to do better.

 

He sounds like a right horndog.

 

Hurry grab the tiki torches

 

I want to say I’m appalled by this non-apology but none of this shit surprises me anymore. Is it seriously that difficult to not be a shithead?

 

Bums me out. He was one of my favorite comedians. Come on guys. Let’s do better.

 

Working on what consensual indications are seems to be something important. Men seem to have such a hard time figuring that out.

 

Men need to slow down and care enough to see the signs. I feel like they do see when we're uncomfortable and want it to stop, but they've been conditioned to think that it's ok to push and coerce until we break down and give in. They don't care about their partner, they care about the end result which is sex for them.

Anyone who is actually attentive to their partner and wants to please them will be paying attn to body language. The fact that he wasn't (and also ignored clear verbal cues as well) tells me that he was only ever thinking of himself. And men thinking sex is all about themselves and the idea that women's pleasure or wants are secondary if thought about at all needs to be eradicated. As long as women are seen as objects or games to win and seen as something that sex happens to instead of an enthusiastic participant, it won't ever stop. He disregarded every cue and sign from her because it was inconvenient to his selfish goal and creepy men like that often enjoy the "chase" and power that comes with breaking women down. I don't believe for a second he didn't know. How can u not know that ur partner is clearly not into it, unless u don't care

 

You kinda hit the nail on the head.

I think most guys find it "acceptable" to push for sex even if their partner isn't really into it. Horniness sort of takes a precedent to a human's actual feelings. The line of consent should be crystal clear, but I think a lot of people blur it unfortunately, and it's all a matter of how much you actually care about your partner versus how much you care about getting laid as to how far you are willing to blur that line.

 

Edgy.

 

Honestly I don't understand why she stayed so long after feeling uncomfortable. Obviously the guy was being creepy. Get out of there..

 

There's lots of reasons. It's easy to shut down and just hope it's over with quickly or hope that if you give in a little it'll be enough and they'll let you leave. I think part of it is also how women are often socialized to not make a fuss and be agreeable instead of advocating for themselves. It's like that old quote where men are afraid of women rejecting them and women are afraid of men harming them. It's a scary situation to be in. If we should be questioning why anyone behaved the way they did, we should question Aziz.

 

Also worth a look:

The Humiliation of Aziz Ansari

 

That article is trash.

 

Another opinion:

Opinion | Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. Of Not Being a Mind Reader.

 

True. Men can't be mind readers. How are they supposed to know that statements like "Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill" and pushing his hands away and not moving her lips anymore and physically walking away means they're not interested. If only men had a way to detect these mythical cues, pause, and then ask the woman if everything is okay. If only that was a thing to possibly do. Darn. Guess this will just keep happening over and over.

 

lots of trash articles today, ugh

 

Thoughts on WaPost, NYT, and the Atlantic’s responses of how this is somehow detrimental to the me too movement?

I think the WaPo article makes an interesting point, in that a bad date or encounters with someone who sucks at sex shouldn’t be roped in with a movement that is about actual sexual assault, but there’s also a larger conversation to be had in this context:

1) Communication is absolutely tantamount to relationships being healthy.

2) This will be an unpopular stance, but white feminism has the very real potential to be the structure of power, leaving the voices of people of color behind. I believe white supremacy as a social construct has the ability to take powerful white men out of power, and leave powerful white women in power. The result is the same in the end. People on the margins don’t have the power, nor do they have the voice needed.

I genuinely do my best to believe all victims first in every single case I read about these issues. But the more I read in this case, the less I believe there was a victim of assault at all. The Babe essay feels like a hit piece meant to capitalize on the Me Too movement.

My interpretation may be totally off base, and I’m more than ok with that if it is.

But it feels like the potential to derail the me too movement is very real, and that scares me too.

 

This woman's story hits home for me because it's how I was assaulted. I kept pushing his hands away and telling him to slow down and that I just wanted to talk. He would stop for a minute and then touch me again and I'd push them away and he'd do it again. Over and over. Eventually I just shut down and "allowed it" to happen. I didn't scream or fight him off of me. Much like the woman in this story I shut down and stopped moving. I guarantee u that man had the same mentality as Aziz and other men who do this. When I confronted him about it afterwards he accused me of pulling the "rape card" and had that same mentality of "how was I supposed to know???" Because of responses like some in here and some articles posted, I buried the experience because I didn't want to be accused of trying to ruins someone life or being dramatic. I knew the reactions would be like the ones to Aziz.

These aren't just cases of women having a grand old time and then coming home and choosing to regret it and ruin the guys life because reasons. These aren't just bad dates. A bad date is a guy bringing up his ex gf a bunch or smelling like BO or something. Cases such as these are not and should not just be common bad date experiences. It is assault and men need to do better.

 

I’m here to listen and learn.

First, I do not know you, but I am truly sorry you went through an assault. Thank you for speaking up and for sharing.

I sure as hell don’t have all of the answers on what men need to do to ensure they and the next generation aren’t conditioned to accept and expect behaviors like what is described.

I am married with a kid. And I can tell you I didn’t get to that point by forcing my self into a situation that a woman didn’t want.

I think men need to do less. They need to listen a ton. Then they need to think about what they’re hearing. And they need to find a community of men who can show them how to properly treat another human being.

As a humanist, I try to see the full value in all walks of life, as long as those walks of life don’t harm others.

Again, I thank you for your insight.

 

"that a bad date or encounters with someone who sucks at sex shouldn’t be roped in with a movement that is about actual sexual assault"

What about this situation even necessitates this being brought up (by you or the article) since it's not relevant to Aziz or the situation? That isn't what she is describing in her accusation. It implies that what she went thru is a bad date or bad sex (sex is consensual) and has no place in this discussion and is irresponsible to include in a discussion of assault.

 

Aziz Ansari, Consent And The Difference Between “Okay, Fine” And Yes

 

You’re absolutely right. While I was simply paraphrasing from that specific article, I don’t believe what is described by Grace is a bad date. It’s much more sinister. The article, however irrelevant, was saying going on a date and finding out someone you liked sucks at sex should not be a part of the me too movement....which of course. But as we agree, that is not what this is, and I don’t think the article gets that.

My larger focus is on doing everything I can to empower women and get out of the way by listening and learning.

Clearly, we don’t have it right.

 

These are things I've been thinking about a lot recently.

I feel like the rhetoric used by men often basically acts as if the women are objects and barely have a choice. "I fucked her", etc. He did it to her. It's something I've made a conscious effort to address if talking about sex and when I was younger I was definitely guilty of sometimes talking like that, maybe to impress other guys due to insecurity, and it makes me feel very awful that I contributed to such a damaging cycle of words towards women.

The second part always mystifies me as to how men couldn't pick up on it. For instance, I've been having sex before when the other person (in this case my girlfriend) has suddenly had a change of mood, and I've noticed immediately. If you aren't just in it for you, it's so obvious. And if you talk to them, sometimes they are just in a strange place mentally, or having a difficult time. If they aren't 100% into it, I'm honestly not even slightly interested in sex. I'm not in it for me, I want it to be good for both of us, and I don't see how that isn't the case for every man?

I think some men forget or simply don't care that women are people, and until they stop seeing women as, like you said, objects to win, then it won't change. I think we need a big change in the culture and language we use to discuss sex amongst young men.


If any of this is wrong, please feel free to tell me, I'd like to learn.