Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 291

So which is it?

Are you asking stupid questions to get answers or are you sincerely trying to share your feelings on the movie? Sure sounds like one over the other.

 

If you think all of the visions had no physical aspects, watch the movie again.

 

They arent stupid questions. I pointed out a plot hole and want them to explain it. The plot hole is a problem i have with the movie that affected my overall enjoyment of the film.

 

I mean, I nitpick the fuck outta things when it comes to film but there’s definitely times you gotta just ignore them and look at the bigger picture as a whole.

 

LOL

 

Again, the force connection is not the same as the projection. If Rian wants us to believe the projection (not kylo and reys connection which kylo specifically says is something different) is physical, why did he go out of his way to specifically show that it isn't?

 

These aren’t the answers you’re looking for. Move along, move along.

 

I honestly would suggest that you take some time and learn about filmmaking, screenplay writing, symbolism in film, etc., because you would have the tools then to answer your own questions.

 

They're nkt the answers in looking for because you cant explain away that plot hole. Nice use of a star wars quote to try and deflect though.

 

The force is not a series of “power” checkboxes. It’s shown at various times the different ways it can manifest and be manipulated. (And it changes all the time.) It’s clear not even the Jedi understand it. You being unable to see that since it *can* bridge itself physically that lends the possibility that’s what it’s doing at the end as well is on you. Or if you’d rather believe neither Kylo or Leia actually *feel* the dice, but only manipulate a projection of them like a Force VR and know they’re not “real” or physically there, that’s another possibility. Neither answers mean lazy writing or plot holes, you’re given the tools to work this out in the movie.

 

I dont think you need to go to film school to be able to notice inconsistencies in a film. Additionally dont try and make a plot hole into some sort of deep symbolism haha thats laughable

 

Bruh, I watch YouTube videos on it, it’s not that complex or hard to learn basic shit.

 

I could accept that only if Rian didnt go out of his way to constantly explain that the connection and projection are totally different, and to show specifically that luke isnt affecting the physical world. He wanted us to know that luke has no affect, but forgot his own rule within 10 minutes. That's a plot hole.

 

Plus, I literally explained the stupid dice bit to you and you ignored it. Go eat my ass, you miserable person.

 

I was only explaining that no further study is needed. Its a plot hole. Nothing more. Theres no symbolism there, Rian just fucked up haha dont know why people have a hard time accepting that as if rian is incapable of making a mistake

 

You missed the entire point. He isn’t saying they’re “different,” he’s saying they’re part of the force. And that the force is something no one, not even the Jedi Masters, truly understand.

Luke not having an effect doesn’t change the dice being there. If it makes you feel better, believe it was a projection and no one felt them in their hands, only saw them. I like to believe there was slight physical connection for a brief moment (which we know is possible through the force, even for a moment .. touching/water drops/etc.). Both options are reasonable given the movie and are not a plot hole by any reasonable definition of the word.

 

See, that wasn’t my point. If you actually learned something about filmmaking and how it actually works, you wouldn’t be asking these dumb questions. Like maybe *gasp* the entire point of the projection was that Luke was distracting Kylo, who is now clearly consumed by emotion and voiding logical thought, would focus on that versus Leia and the remaining Resistance in the base trying to escape. Oh you know what, maybe it was a means for him to “save” the galaxy and the Resistance with a power he mostly likely developed alone on a planet he couldn’t leave with ancient Jedi texts to read, idk man that seems pretty fucking plausible when you think it about it.

 

First, let me start by saying i appreciate that we moved away from the more personal aspects of our disagreement, and I am truly reading your responses, and looking at it from your POV. Youre giving detailed thought out responses and I'm cool with that, its discussion.

With that said. My issues is your points about the force would be more believable TO ME, if kylo didn't specifically speak on the difference between what he and Rey experienced, and what force projection is. Rian had kylo say that line as foreshadowing, and to establish a power we would see later in the movie. I think we just agree to disagree, and ill leave it at that.

 

He only speaks to *Rey* not being able to do what he first guesses, not that it’s different. We don’t know exactly what Snoke is doing. We see multiple physical entities crossing over. From a touch to actual rain. It’s all part of a whole. Not separate. That’s the entire message of the Force and becoming one with it. It’s not like individual super hero powers. We know a very powerful force user can manifest physical traits across time and space, you can decide if you think the rain or dice Kylo touches are real or in his mind. But it does happen that he perceives them both as real for a moment within this world via the Force.

 

Dude, i literally said that luke was distracting kylo earlier in the thread. You dont have to study film to see that was obviously what he was doing. I didn't question WHY or HOw he was force projecting, just the inconsistencies of the projection itself.

 

Remember when Jedi could speed run around ships in Phantom Menace.

I’m glad that didn’t stay a thing.

 

Yea, cause people answering your endless stupid questions has gone so well and changed your feelings on the movie. If only I had the time to help.

 

Riddle me this, how are we supposed to know how something actually is supposed to look or be like if we never saw it before? Like maybe that’s just how it fucking works, you miserable ass.

 

I see where you're coming from,and how you connected the dots for your own personal explanation. I just dont care for that explanation, and to me its a plot hole. But thats just my opinion. Again, im agreeing to just disagree about it, I'm not trying to change your opinion, just pointing out how I formed mine

 

It’s kind of like how Luke jumped out of the carbonation chamber as Vader pulled the switch. Luke jumped up REALLY fast. But we never see that again. I’m cool with it.