Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 203

This idea of defending everything in this film because it's 'risky' sounds like such a cop-out. You can do that for any films, even the prequels.

- Lucas was taking a risk by killing off fan-favourite Darth Maul!
- Lucas was taking a risk by utilising new technology to incorporate a CGI character, Jar-Jar Binks!
- Lucas took a risk by bringing politics into Star Wars! A film that's primarily targeted at kids!
- Quigon Jinn decides to risk the entire important mission on whether a child can win his first race.
etc etc.

 

I will say I'm tired of complaints being brushed off as you don't understand or they'r subverting expectations.

Which yes, I get, but if you're gonna subvert what your setting up sometimes within the same scene it should be effective. I just feel like they undercut themselves time and again in this movie in a way that was more frustrating than satisfying.

Some complaints are incredibly minor and nitpicky out there, but I have major bones to pick with the plotting, tone and dialogue throughout the movie. The pacing is abysmal in the first half.


Ultimately it was a very rough watch for me until we get to the throne room scene, from then on the movie certainly improved.

 

If this was directed at my novel, I never said Lucas didnt. he did. And i didnt like most. And some I did. (he planted the jedi being faulty seed). Also I didnt say all of Johnsons risks payed off. I was simply responding to somebody saying there were no risks. Thats not defending "everything" in the film just defending that take that there were no risks.

 

I think most, if not all, of the risks in TLJ paid off.

Most of the “risks” in the prequels did not.

 

Not necessarily directed at anyone. Just I'm seeing that excuse in the defense for almost everything in this film. He definitely did take some, just that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good outcome.

 

Yeah you’ve probably phrased this all better than me in this haha.

 

Not for me (and many others), ie killing off Snoke was a bad 'risk', imo.

 

Why was it a bad idea? He wasn’t that interesting anyways

 

So we wanted Snoke to mirror the Emperor as the big baddie for the trilogy?

I loved every second of his death, the lead up and the aftermath. It was so satisfying to see them crush that expectation.

Again:
“This is not going to go the way you think.”

 

Like, I love the idea of every character failing in some way in this... but it feels like a lot of the ramifications for that failure is on the tertiary (nameless resistance fighters deaths) so it just doesn't come across as having a major impact.

 

The fact that he wasn't that interesting (to you) means they failed to develop his character properly.

But he's the big bad guy that's been around for a while and is orchestrating everything bad behind-the-scenes. He's super powerful in the force and toyed with Rey and Kylo (minus his death). Me and many others wanted closure on who he was. I don't buy Kylo Ren as the big bad guy cause the whole film shows how he is clearly conflicted (Adam Driver did great).

 

And what's the alternative for ep 9? Kylo Ren mirroring Darth Vader as the First Order hunt down the rebels only for the Resistance to win as the sequels conclude with good guys prevailing?

 

Lol dude they have like 20 people and just the Millennium Falcon left by the end of the movie. And ahem Admiral Ackbar is not nameless.

 

I’ve already said I was disappointed with character development in this. I really wanted to have Phasma be more fleshed out. Though Snokes death served a purpose. We didn’t really need to have him more fleshed out. Phasma’s death was cheap though.

 

Oh don't worry there will be a timeskip and a renewed resistance as IX opens up.

 

Yeah I mean you said it as you cant erase whats in your brain and not let it affect how you see other art, but hard to use a different medium to compare. In movies I havent seen a lot of these archetypes handled these ways.

Ill agree the tone didnt mesh. Personally and this is me possibly irrationally defending my new BFF Rian Johnson I have a feeling the sets that Rian wasnt allowed ( I think they denied about 40-something sets) to make that he wanted were for that aspect of the film but it wouldve costed too much.

The PETA thing is the 1 of 15 themes i can think of that wasnt a consistent tie through the movie and more of a shoehorned thing but it didnt bother me being in there. It made sense to the location adn that culture. Second time watching I just enjoyed it for what it was. A fun action adventure sequence. The convenience of the plot and DJ being there and even Maz giving them this video game esque mission is something I didnt like. BB8 shooting coins took me out. and a lot of that arc didnt work for me, but I love the adventure and I think Finn learned a lot from both DJ and Rose about what it means to want to have a purpose and fight for something beyond yourself and just survival.

Well we can agree it would if the guard had a face. But I cant think of many disney properties or any in this genre where the lead character killed something living that blatantly. Superheros do it on accident via the wreckage of a city or killing/exploding robots/alien creatures.

something about a any sword cutting through a neck and taking off a living things head. Rare. Batman didnt kill in the dark knight trilogy. Harry Potter never killed anybody (at least from what I can remember). Goku from DBZ. Aang from Avatar. All have a moral code that says no killing no matter what.(sorry to use only these examples still but im struggling even thinking of similar genre stuff in general). Even Luke in the OG trilogy you see him slash but you dont see the actual slice or anything. They just kind of fall down lol.

Maybe I jsut wasnt expecting it and beheadings and sliced necks always just make me uneasy lol

 

As was I. But why not have Snoke more fleshed out? We know nothing about his back story. If he had at least told Rey who he was before he waa killed then that would've offered some closure. How can you care more about a glorified stormtrooper than the ultimate malevolent bad-guy orchestrating everything (including employing Phasma) Snoke?

The Mountain from Game of Thrones was more exciting than Phasma ever was, who was clearly just JJ's attempt to capitalise on Boba Fett's popularity.

 

disagree with character development. Agree with Phasma. Especially after reading her book. Im glad Finn didnt beat her fair, and won via cheapshot and I loved the Rebel scum line, but unfortunately she is the Boba Fett of this trilogy. So cool. So intimidating. Thrown away. But as I said earlier. Theres so much in this movie any more of her wouldve taken away from an already complained about flow/pace/distracted focus.

 

Okay, I get what you’re saying now. It’s just really hard for more to think about the events of Empire without ROTJ.

 

Sorry. To elaborate there WAS good character development in other areas. I just meant for some other characters. Rey, Rose, Kylo, and Luke were all well written I thought.

 

Totally get it. The Two Towers does it poorly in film, for another example, but those movies focused more on climax than bridge. Where Tolkien leaves Frodo and Sam at the end of the novel is the perfect example, IMO, of how to bridge and climax. Ie: Is Frodo dead? Can Sam do it alone? (Most of the first hour of ROTK is the final few chapters of TTT.)

 

gotcha. you didnt like Poe or Finn's? I loved Poe's whole arc about what it means to be a leader and how Holdo and Leia intertwine with that.

In the beginning he wanted to fight blindly even if it meant his squad dying to hit his goal and not taking into account the big picture.

In the end he realized when retreat was necessary and staying alive was best. Finn (who only cared about staying alive) said we should help (his arc of finally wanting to fight against something). Their arcs reversed and culminated in one moment when Poe decides to retreat which is when Leia lets him take over because she sees hes ready.

How i saw it. why i loved it.

 

No one loses a hand but we lose 99% of the entire resistance army.

 

That was really, really good. I’m so happy.

 

Glad Snoke is gone tbh. Kylo Ren is the compelling villain. The complexities his character faces in the throne room scene are exactly why Snoke being killed off was the right decision. Roller coaster, and Kylo Ren is my favorite Star Wars character ever now.