Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson, December 15, 2017) Movie • Page 202

Yeah that doesn’t explain Why “Empire is flawless and not safe in part because it was willing to commit to irreparable damage.”

 

Unsubscribing from this thread for the day.

Be back tomorrow.

 

superiority complex su·pe·ri·or·i·ty complex (sōō-pēr'ē-ôr'ĭ-tē)
n.

1. An exaggerated feeling of being superior to others.

 

I think it's not that they don't like the movie, it's that they have such bad and dumb opinions that are really bad and really dumb.

 

However bad and dumb the opinions may be, I just don’t see the appeal of going on twitter to search them out. If someone comments in this thread with a bad and dumb opinion and people cared to discuss it that’s one thing, but dragging ones from people on Twitter who are not even paid critics just seems like it’s done out of sport.

 

It is done out of sport! haha

 

I just realized Rey has to make her own saber for the next film. Hopefully it looks cool

 

So I assume this guy is a Snoke fan boy or something?

 

What on earth is even happening to this thread I don’t know anymore. I feel like we need to steer back or something.

I honestly thought people would love this as much as I do. Surprised with the negative reactions, but def not bothered by it.

A few questions
- the jedi books were burned right?
- what was the black vines Rey kept looking into and eventually falling
- was the island Luke was on only in TFA/TLJ
- did they ever explain what happened to the other padawans that kylo took with him

 

Which brings me back to my first post. Why do people get off on seeking out opinions they disagree with just to smear them on this website for the satisfaction of beating their chest and pointing out how their own opinions are far more superior? Is it the feeling that the person isn’t seen as having wrong opinions to their peers on this website or so that they can get approval ratings for their opinions by sharing opinions they don’t like? After all and said and done, it’s just soaking in negativity and an egotistical sense of film opinions.

 

Well, for example. Han was thawed in the next film. In context now with the full trilogy in show, it’s safe and reverting to the standard mean. But at the time and without RotJ to immediately reveal the safe reversal (a common theme in the whole series), that was a very unsafe way to leave a character. It’s very common to view the second movie in a trilogy in a different light due to its position, especially given that it needs to bridge and create a tensionable climax within its own narrative. Luke lost and fled. Han was captured.

At the end of the Last Jedi, the Rebels were smaller in number—but so was the First Order. Kylo lost, but he’s still in the position of supreme power. Rey, Finn, Leia, and Poe “won” but they’re still in the same power position they were at the beginning of the film. It didn’t change much of anything.

I love that we legit have no idea where it’s going next. I just really don’t like the vehicle they’re using to take us there and set it up.

Every hero’s arc has the removing of mentor stage (Gandalf, Dumbledore, Merlin, litany of Star Wars examples, etc) and we got that in this film with Luke and Snoke. That’s pretty cool symmetry and probably what I like most about the film.

 

1) The books were burned but if I remember correctly, Yoda mentioned them not even being readable.
2) I believe that was the dark side of the force.
3) If we’re talking about movies, yes. It’s probably the only time we’ll see the island for a while or at least in this trilogy. As for the Ach-To being in the books, IDK.
4) Wasn’t it implied or stated in TFA that Kylo killed them? The Knights Of Ren seems to be an idea that is strictly Abrams and Johnson didn’t care to explore it but i’m sure Abrams will bring it up in episode IX.

 

Rey took the books with her before she left the island

 

I agree. Which is why it’s such a weird choice to have so much of the film be her flirting with the dark side. Even if it is mostly in part to try and save Kylo.

I understand that many of the major SW characters have to overcome the dark side temptation. But, unless I’m forgetting something, we never see Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, or Leia have that struggle. Rey could’ve easily not had it.

Most of empire was in a swamp and in space so I’m not sure why that point is being made.

I guess I don’t. GRRM killing off his protagonist at the end of book one is one example of something I consider unsafe.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like that Luke and Snoke died in this film. That leaves the most powerful force users on both sides gone for episode IX and Kylo, Hux, Rey, Poe, and Finn will be completely free to do their own battles with no one casting a shadow on them.

 

I remember there was a line where kylo or luke said Ben killed a number of jedi in training and then took the rest with him. Cannot confirm that 100% though

 

Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s what was said but I don’t remember who said it. That leaves the question as to why a few people chose Kylo’s side and some didn’t and what happened to the ones that did choose Kylo’s side? Did Snoke kill them? Are the Knights Of Ren still operating somewhere without Kylo?

 

-no. I think many have said Rey saved them. but I missed it.
-physical representation of the dark side of the force.
-yes
-nope. no knights of ren either.

 

this is long so if you dont want to read sorry.

You cant just simply gloss over this like it means nothing. Expectations is a huge aspect of a Star Wars fan experience now. We have 3 movies of Luke being the archetypical hero. One of the most beloved characters of all time. Since the 70s. And you show him as a dejected hermit who shuts himself off to the force, doesnt want to be a hero, doesnt want to train the new hero and saying he hates the legend that "Luke Skywalker" has become. Thats a slap in the face for fans who consider Luke a legend/hero

He thinks the lore/ideology of the Jedi that people have attached themselves to for just as long is wrong and needs to end. Then having THEE Jedi, Yoda, agree and literally and metaphorically burn the tree that represents that. That is arguably the most risky thing Star Wars has ever done. You are taking everything we know about Star Wars and saying yeah, that ideology was wrong and you were by attaching yourself to it.

Philosophically its so damn easy to see things in black and white. Good. Evil. Easy. Theres no intellectual provocation behind that. Empire evil. Rebellion good. (not that thats bad) And now you say its not that easy. That there is a grey. That the light side. the "good" side isnt "right". That the "dark side. The "bad" side is not only not bad, but necessary for balance. Thats a risk. Literally in the movie I think DJ says good and evil are judgements and they mean nothing. Right and wrong is judgement. Theres grey. Nobody thinks they are the bad guy. The one ship on the casino showed that both the good and bad guys were buying ships for war from the same people (Happens in real life too).

Personally I think Canto Bight was really Rian depicting Earth and us.

Cant gloss over Snokes death either. People were speculating for two years and you kill off your main villain. Your emperor with no explanation. Right or wrong? doesnt matter. And now people are furious over that fact. That was a risk. Something nobody expected. Name another movie where the guy you paint as the main villain is killed in the second movie of the series and by his own side and not by the hero. Rarely

Now. moving on.

As someone pointed out to me earlier, stakes dont mean a loss of limbs or death. In DBZ people die all the time and are brought back to life. Losing a hand or limb means nothing. Luke, Anakin get new ones built. Maul was cut in half and came back (albeit in animation). Thats not stakes nor is it risk. Thats just an inconvenience in Star Wars. Meaning if death is the only that that makes you feel like there's any emotional weight, then you were going in with unreal expectations for a Star Wars movie. Holdo, Ackbar, Luke, Snoke, and basically all of the Resistance die. Theres only a handful left that is so small it can all fit on the Falcon and its unfiar to ask for even more or only if a main character like Finn, Poe, Rose, Rey, or Kylo in order for it to be enough stakes for you.

For the record I did want Finn to make that sacrifice. I just thought it wouldve been a beautiful moment, but it didnt mean that when he didnt they were afraid to take the risk.

Also I think having your main hero whos become a inspiration for millions of kids decapitate people is a risk. Having That guard that got mangled and spit out into praeteorian confetti, Kylo stab that guy in the face. Thats a risk for a Disney movie when you know a big portion of your audience is kids.

Kylo ren's archetype is common. hes Zuko from Avatar. Malfoy from Harry Potter. Vegeta from DBZ. Vader in Star Wars. Not exactly alike obviously but for the purposes of a story that is the role he was in. Hot headed. Troubled. A prince of some sort with a rich lineage. All of them have turmoil being on the bad side then they switch. I expected him to switch and sacrifice himself like they usually do. They planted it with him "being torn apart" and not killing Leia, but they ended up making that character kill the main bad guy and taking power. Never seen that before. Ever. Rian showed he had good then said "it doesnt matter if he has good in him, its the choices you make that determine who you really are." Rey going dark wouldve been a risk. I admit. The biggest risk. but expecting that jsut because it would be a huge risk was unfair and also wouldve clashed with her character.

Now...moving on. Rian wrote a movie that has at least 15 different themes. 14 of which are all throughout the movie weaving in and out of stories with different characters. All of which I believed he hit beautifully. That. Is. hard. That is putting a lot on yourself as a writer and director to be able to have it all in your head and successful be able to weave all that into a story.

So many people are saying this isnt star wars. This ruined star wars. Rian doesnt understand it. A simply bad or underwheleming movie with no stakes doesnt provoke those comments. If it was just a unrisky bleh movie it wouldve had the saem reaction as Jurassic World. (for what its worth I do enjoy that movie for what it is).

Lastly, just want to say before I turn in what has turned into an essay, I dont think you shouldve liked the movie or anything or that you "didnt get it" because I hate when people do that. I dont think the movie was perfect despite it being on of my favorites of all time. If you didnt like it you didnt like it. No problem. Youre not wrong. But I will defend to my grave that movie was risky.

Movie makers juggle spinning plates. Some do just enough they know they can handle. and this is Rian Johnson making a movie:

He had so many characters he had to juggle. So many plots/subplots. So many themes/messages he wanted to touch upon that he put upon himself. he may have dropped some of the plates, but its unfair to see him to do this movie, juggle more things that Ive ever seen a movie maker ever juggle and do so well with most of it, then drop one or two plates and only look at/pay attention to those things and say hes a bad filmmaker for those things. (not directed towards you specifically)

Then say he didnt take any risks because nobody died/lost a limb they could get back/have your main character go bad.

Woo. Once again sorry for the length my man. didnt mean to come off abrasive. A lot of this was general thoughts. Not just your post but hopefully I at least gave you a different perspective to consider.

 

Kind of wish they ended on a cliffhanger so there was something to make me personally anticipate episode 9. We've got a conflicted half-bad guy who seems to care about the protoganist which kind of dampens the threat, imo. The OT stars are gone. The new main cast underperformed (minus Daisy and Adam). The sequels have been underwhelming so far, imo.

Now we got JJ Abrams directing again. Inb4 the Resistance destroy Death Star #4 and the franchise ends on Yub Nub 2.

 

The flirting with the dark side is because Rey is not a Jedi and not going to be a Jedi, at least not like any Jedi we've ever seen. One of the larger points of the film is that assigning the good/evil dichotomy to the light side and dark side is foolish. The Jedi were fools. The Sith were fools. They both thought they had a grasp on this universal force that binds literally everything together. They didn't. The breadth of their knowledge amounted to moving rocks. The force is about balancing light and dark. That's the direction Yoda has gone, that's were Luke ends up at the end of this movie, and that's were Rey is heading.

 

I never thought Rey would go full dark side but I always thought it was possible she could have become a gray Jedi. In between the light and the dark.

 

1. No. We see Rey closing a drawer on the Millennium Falcon at one point then Finn opens that drawer later to get Rose a blanket and we see the books. Yoda was clever as fuck saying, “Already has, young Rey, all that was in the tree.”
2. Not sure. Some type of represtation of the dark side?
3. No.
4. Kylo says he took some of them with him and the others must have died.

My question: So Ben already had his Kylo mask before he turned?

 

Thank you for a legitimate response. I really appreciate that you took the time to explain your thoughts. You didn’t come off as abrasive.

A few responses:

Many of the plot points you mentioned as not happening in film very often I’ve seen before in my fantasy reading. For example, the two biggest villains of Wheel of Time die in the first two books of fourteen total. So I probably have a skewed view of what is new and fresh and a shift of expectations. The hermit who hates his legend is another common theme in fantasy literature. I’ll concede that point to you especially in light of the SW lore and world of film and the books I typically read.

I thought the message of Canto Bight and the ship conversation afterwards were really vital to the universe. But being hidden in a PETA-esque cgifest tonally inconsistent with much of the film really dampened it for me—even if the setting free of captives is very Star Wars and something I’m quite passionate about. I’m very curious how this information changes Finn’s role and outlook in the next film.

I think this movie is very Star Wars. So that’s not been a complaint I’ve seen that makes sense to me. It didn’t have an eyegasm lightsaber duel, but the Praetorian fight was just as great.

I don’t think Disney has as much control of plot re: What will the kids think as it seems to be implied with both Star Wars and Marvel. But I do think their ownership does inspire more conversations about how to bring kids in. Rey beheading a nameless, faceless guard decked in the color of evil isn’t that risky to the brand, y’know?

 

It’s pretty much a dark side cave like on Dagobah