Accountability in Music • Page 18

Not saying it shouldn't be but yeah don't think it's been done in any meaningful way and Tyler is clearly different

 

sorry, that tweet I posted is legit the only thing I've ever read online which makes me want cry every time I think about it and I've seen a lot of fucked up shit online
I feel like I made this about myself, love you Jake I don't know what I'm saying

 

The tweet is awful don't get me wrong but I see the 2011 date and find it hard to still be mad given what's going on in 2017

 

Idk about how the conversation was presented, but I am 1000% more interested and invested in talking about Tyler versus discussing someone like xxx at all because I will never listen to him. I draw a line at physical abuse and assault. There’s obviously a huge spectrum when it comes to this stuff, so I do think focusing on what kind of behavior and how much of it we can accept is more important than emphasizing just how shitty abusers are.

 

Digging up old tweets is so dumb in general. Someone had a go at me before for calling out someone for being homophobic when I post about Kamaiyah a lot. She posted some homophobic tweets about Lil B back in 2010, but I really doubt she feels that way now. She was 18 FFS. A lot of people say dumb shut when they're young. And a lot of people say it to fit in.

 

I'm fine with people holding me accountable for the words I used when I was young. I said things I regret, I was wrong to say them, and I should apologize for it. I said a lot of sexist bullshit and I carry that with me without excuse or justification. It was bad. I was shitty.

 

I was just saying I don't think everyone should be ridiculed for everything when they're an ignorant teenager.

I'm a gay male and I love Kamaiyah despite what she said on twitter when she was 18

 

i said i liked kings of leon in 2010. don’t want any of that shit getting dragged out.

 

i find old stuff being brought up is usually done so for less than sincere reasons. not always. but a lot. but i find a lot of the framing of old tweets really unfair. and not conductive to more important conversations, imo. the convos should happen, sure, but in the context of real abuse, i dont know, putting old tweets side by side of abuse allegations isn't how those should be addressed. you risk downplaying the abuse and you risk downplaying the tweets. individual instances should be dealt with individually. the tyler stuff was brought up next to mac, both were brought up next to brand new. none of those three are anywhere near the same. thats why i thought something else happened with tyler. it was framed as being on that level.

 

and while i wish everyone would address old tweets i understand the mental toll it can take on a human when stuff they're ashamed of is dragged up seemingly out of nowhere andthey get bombared with hate. wrong or not, that has an affect on the mental well being of the individual if they truly have changed and wantto distance themselves. having to relive your worst hour is daunting. its trying. it can do harm to that person. if people went and dug up some of my worst shit, i dont think id react too well. i think it would send me into a dark, dark place and feel alienated. thats a trigger for my addiction issues honestly. so i give people the benefit of the doubt if they had some shitty tweets 3-4-5 years ago and no longer seem to bethat way at all anymore, even if never fully addressed, i wont hold that grudge unless they havent changed and are still harmful. otherwise, yes i wish it would be addressed, but if its not and they're doing better anyway, i think thats good.

 

these are the good kings of leon songs. "closer," "knocked up," "the immortals." thank you.

 

this is my point kind of yeah. people bring up problematic tweets as though well YOU DONT LIKE BRAND NEW ANYMORE WHY NOT THESE GUYS??? well, old tweets are not nearly the same. not even close. they're worth discussing sometimes, i guess, but a lot of the time i dont know what more people want. i dont expect everyone to take time addressing every shitty thing they ever said. ideally that is possible and the solution, but i see human beings on the other side, as far as im concerned, actions speak louder than apologies. tyler has been doing great things this year. kerry of deafheaven is a great ally for LGBQT people and causes. deafheaven makes black metal an inclusive scene in ways so many bands in the genre dont, which is why they get hate. that says a lot to me, more than him calling a gay friend a ***got in jest four years ago. those tweets were dug up in malice by purists who hate the band. the guy kerry was talking to came out and said we were messing around, said hes gay, that him and kerry are great friends.

 

I think we should focus on things people did in the past and things people are doing in the present, rather than words that people posted on social media before they were famous

 

as far as tyler whoever said a lot of it was him struggling with fitting in but reckoning with his identiy as a gay black man is spot on. none of us can imagine being in that position. im bi. when i wasnt sure of my identity, when i was scared and ashamed, i said homophobic shit, i said shit i cant even believe i said. but i was in so much pain because my peers were the same and its like i could never truly be me and had to go with the flow of the society i was in in order to just survive. being in the closet is hard in ways that are different than being out. both are hard. both require so much strength.

 

I didn't mean to spark this whole thing by posting the tweet tbh I just legitimately didn't know if he'd ever addressed it

did not mean to conflate old bad tweets w/ abuse allegations

if it appeared that I did so I apologize

 

another one of my points: whats going on in 2017 is more important than tweets from 2011. tyler putting out a song revealing his identity and reinventing himself says more to me than the dumb fuck disgusting shit he said when he had a shock persona to live up to after being thrust into fame

 

it was the post about spin not including tyler because of something? and i was like whats the something what did he do? andwhenitturned out to be his old persona, i was confused, that to me is no reason to turn on someone forever

 

full disclosure here: i sympathize with people who have said bad shit in the past more than most because the old me, from ages 12-19, would be completely unrecognizable to any of you. i was fucking disgusting. i was vile. i was a ridiculously bad person who said some of the most disgusting shit imaginable. i was racist, i was sexist, i was downright mean and didnt care who it affected. i feel so much shame and while almost none happened online (ive scrubbed the worst of my old tweets), i was a bad bad bad person nonetheless and ive been trying to atone ever since i became educated and truly interested in the issues of oppression of minority/vulnerable groups. if it had happened online and i had to relive that part of me beyond what i already reckon with in my own head, but on a public platform instead, it would tear me the fuck down in an instant. im not that strong. i am truly sorry for who i was and try every day to atone for it with my actions, which may never be enough, but when i see people doing the right thing called out for old shit out of nowhere, i sympathize if they seem to be on the right side of history in present day even if they werent in the past. huge huge huge props to those who address it head on, but no hate for those that can't handle that scrutinty as long as they truly seem better.

 

I said homophobic shit when I was a teenager. I knew I was gay from when I was 10. But I wanted to cover it up. I didn't end up Coming out to anyone until I was 19. My point is, people say stupid when they're young. Their actions as an adult is what should matter.

I remember when was with one of my best friends at school. He mocked these gay guys that were making out on a bus. A few years later he goes to Pride every year with his girlfriend. People do change.

 

I think you're a good person if that matters at all

 

I also think digging up old tweets isn't right and not an accurate representation of someone's character now. But I remember a Twitter exchange between Jack Barakat of All Time Low and a member of 5 Seconds of Summer back in 2015 when both of them were casually making rape jokes. Both of them were called out, I was one of the people calling out the gross shit they said, and nothing from either of them. Everyone has their lines and I understand if people don't care about those tweets but they totally soured me from ATL and I can't listen to them without thinking "Jack Barakat is a shitty person" - he might not be but not apologising for those "jokes" is disgusting imo

I said a lot of terrible things as a teenager, and I'd be ashamed if someone dug into my Facebook to show the homophobic, sexist things I said. But I would 100% own up and apologise and I am not that person anymore. What @sophos34 said about being a closeted bi person also resonates with me and that struggle was very painful. Not an excuse for my actions, merely an explanation, and I'm more than happy to apologise for things I said that hurt people

 

i appreciate that and it has taken a lot of work, it has been due to the education i got on AP and here. @Dominick @Wharf Rat @Jason Tate @storm @Anna Acosta @Kiana @180xSummer (my wonderful girlfriend) and so many others have taught me more than i ever thought id learn

 

It's a tricky thing. If someone is genuinely trying to bring attention to something and refer back to old tweets then yeah go for it. People should take responsibility for what they put out into the world. When anti fans search a celebs twitter for certain words hoping to ping on something problematic then it feels a bit less genuine. I def have a past on the internet I regret. I had internalized misogyny all up over the place and my desperation for attention and validation led me to doing things that I am ashamed of now, all because I wanted to feel accepted and well-liked. I honestly get anxious thinking about someone dredging those things up because I know now that it was a desperate cry for attention and I had issues that needed to be addressed and I was too young to fully grasp the consequences of my actions. So I def get that side of not wanting to talk about it either because it was a dark time in my life and reliving that sucks.

Basically, intent seems to matter a lot. If the person bringing it up seems genuinely upset or concerned then of course bring it up. But if they're actively searching for things to call ppl out on it starts getting iffy.

 

2011 was a wacky time

 

cwhit, 2006-2009 me would make 2011 me look like mother theresa